5 ms·

It's quite reminiscent of how long it took people to associate smoking with emphysema and lung disease. In hindsight it seems so obvious! But building evidence

It's quite reminiscent of how long it took people to associate smoking with emphysema and lung disease. In hindsight it seems so obvious! But building evidence for even obvious conclusions can be surprisingly hard.

bsder 2y ago
> It's quite reminiscent of how long it took people to associate smoking with emphysema and lung disease. It was obvious even back then. The difference was that the crap you breathed in from air pollution as well as the garbage you were breathing in from working the mills and mines was likely to kill you before the bad effects of smoking kicked in. Once we had the EPA and got rid of the other garbage, suddenly smoking actually mattered to your mortality.
- readthenotes1 2y ago
  The EPA came years after the dangers of cigarette smoking were known, and months after the ban on cigarette ads was made in the USA. Big Tobacco was really good at pushing/buying counter narratives (including but not limited to "think of all the poor tobacco farmers"). Why is marijuana considered so wonderful? Seems more like a grass roots movement ignoring the casualties along the way. https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco-surgeon-general-reports/about/history.html https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco-surgeon-general-reports/about/hi...
  - triceratops 2y ago
    > Why is marijuana considered so wonderful? It isn't considered "wonderful". It's just not worth putting people into prison over. It's still a vice, like tobacco, alcohol, or gambling. There are also some important differences between it and cigarettes. 1. Way less actual smoking needed. Or not needed at all because edibles exist. 2. It isn't chemically addictive or habit-forming for most people. 3. There are legitimate medical applications for pain or nausea relief. Again, without smoking.
    - cj 2y ago
      > 2. It isn't chemically addictive or habit-forming for most people. I've never understood why people claim it's not addictive when there are well established symptoms experienced when withdrawing. Disruption in sleep quality, vivid dreams, insomnia, etc. I was a nightly smoker for a long time (only after 8pm, never during the day) -- it took extraordinary effort and multiple attempts to quit. Perhaps there isn't a specific biological addiction that can be defined precisely, but it's definitely addictive nonetheless.
      - triceratops 2y ago
        "for most people" If you were a nightly smoker you were already addicted. Most cannabis users don't use it daily. In that way it's like alcohol. This is in contrast to tobacco users, who use it like caffeine.
        cj 2y ago
        By the same logic, you could say “cigarettes aren’t addictive for most people”.
        triceratops 2y ago
        You could say that but you'd be wrong. 86% of cigarette smokers are daily smokers. [1] Only 28% of cannabis users (note: not smokers, users) are daily users. 42% are daily or near-daily users. [2] Cigarette smokers are 5 times more likely to be daily cannabis users. [3] Most cannabis users don't use it daily. An overwhelming majority of cigarette smokers smoke (both tobacco and cannabis) daily. There's no comparison. I'm very sorry for your struggles. They're not typical. I know that's cold comfort for you. 1. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5934666/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5934666/ 2. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38775461/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38775461/ 3. https://www.publichealth.columbia.edu/news/cigarette-smokers-are-five-times-more-likely-be-daily-marijuana-users https://www.publichealth.columbia.edu/news/cigarette-smokers...

bsder 2y ago

> It's quite reminiscent of how long it took people to associate smoking with emphysema and lung disease. It was obvious even back then. The difference was that the crap you breathed in from air pollution as well as the garbage you were breathing in from working the mills and mines was likely to kill you before the bad effects of smoking kicked in. Once we had the EPA and got rid of the other garbage, suddenly smoking actually mattered to your mortality.

readthenotes1 2y ago
The EPA came years after the dangers of cigarette smoking were known, and months after the ban on cigarette ads was made in the USA. Big Tobacco was really good at pushing/buying counter narratives (including but not limited to "think of all the poor tobacco farmers"). Why is marijuana considered so wonderful? Seems more like a grass roots movement ignoring the casualties along the way. https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco-surgeon-general-reports/about/history.html https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco-surgeon-general-reports/about/hi...
- triceratops 2y ago
  > Why is marijuana considered so wonderful? It isn't considered "wonderful". It's just not worth putting people into prison over. It's still a vice, like tobacco, alcohol, or gambling. There are also some important differences between it and cigarettes. 1. Way less actual smoking needed. Or not needed at all because edibles exist. 2. It isn't chemically addictive or habit-forming for most people. 3. There are legitimate medical applications for pain or nausea relief. Again, without smoking.
  - cj 2y ago
    > 2. It isn't chemically addictive or habit-forming for most people. I've never understood why people claim it's not addictive when there are well established symptoms experienced when withdrawing. Disruption in sleep quality, vivid dreams, insomnia, etc. I was a nightly smoker for a long time (only after 8pm, never during the day) -- it took extraordinary effort and multiple attempts to quit. Perhaps there isn't a specific biological addiction that can be defined precisely, but it's definitely addictive nonetheless.
    - triceratops 2y ago
      "for most people" If you were a nightly smoker you were already addicted. Most cannabis users don't use it daily. In that way it's like alcohol. This is in contrast to tobacco users, who use it like caffeine.
      - cj 2y ago
        By the same logic, you could say “cigarettes aren’t addictive for most people”.
        triceratops 2y ago
        You could say that but you'd be wrong. 86% of cigarette smokers are daily smokers. [1] Only 28% of cannabis users (note: not smokers, users) are daily users. 42% are daily or near-daily users. [2] Cigarette smokers are 5 times more likely to be daily cannabis users. [3] Most cannabis users don't use it daily. An overwhelming majority of cigarette smokers smoke (both tobacco and cannabis) daily. There's no comparison. I'm very sorry for your struggles. They're not typical. I know that's cold comfort for you. 1. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5934666/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5934666/ 2. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38775461/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38775461/ 3. https://www.publichealth.columbia.edu/news/cigarette-smokers-are-five-times-more-likely-be-daily-marijuana-users https://www.publichealth.columbia.edu/news/cigarette-smokers...