4 ms·

I don't think that's what he said at all. I read it as a criticism of a bad premise. Do you mean to imply that there is so such thing?

by yock 14y ago

tptacek 14y ago
He wrote "it's downright shameful for this guy to run around promoting the idea". There is a level of badness at which ideas become shameful to promote, but that's a pretty high bar to clear, and I'm pretty sure electronic brands that don't actually kill people can't clear it at all.
- mindcrime 14y ago
  There is a level of badness at which ideas become shameful to promote, but that's a pretty high bar to clear In your subjective view, which has exactly zero more, or less, validity here than mine. This feels like you're wasting time, arguing for the sake of being pedantic, or just because you like arguing. Is there some fundamental point you're trying to make here? Because if there is, it doesn't look like anyone else is getting it.
  - tptacek 14y ago
    People who disagree with you are not shameful. If we agree there, I think we can just move on.
    - mindcrime 14y ago
      How about stop putting words in my mouth, and then making a big deal out of arguing about it?
- jack-r-abbit 14y ago
  It really bugs me when people lop off parts of sentences to make a quote in a different context. What he actually wrote was "it's downright shameful for this guy to run around promoting the idea that open devices are designed to enable piracy". The idea that open devices are designed to enable piracy should not really be one of those "well, that is your opinion" type of things. It is a broad generalization that is flat wrong because... well... it is such a broad generalization. Open devices are designed to... uh... be open. To enable user control. To enable hobbyist tinkering. To enable community help. Being that the "enable piracy" idea is dead wrong, promoting it is dangerous & harmful... thus worthy of shame.
  - tptacek 14y ago
    I haven't cut off context. You just disagree with his idea so strongly that it upsets you for him to even have it. I don't believe "openness" connotes "intent to enable piracy", but "piracy is far more rampant in the open Android ecosystem than the closed iOS ecosystem" isn't an unreasonable observation to make, and, having made it, "openness promotes piracy" isn't a totally unreasonable conclusion to draw from it. Stop telling people to be embarrassed about their ideas. It's a very poor rhetorical strategy. The only benefit it accrues to you is that it riles your supporters up into similarly gnarly expressions of contempt. It certainly doesn't persuade anyone of anything.
    - mindcrime 14y ago
      and, having made it, "openness promotes piracy" isn't a totally unreasonable conclusion to draw from it. And that isn't what I quoted and replied to. If that was all TFA had said, I probably could have nodded my head and said "Yeah, whatever" and kept going. But TFA made a much stronger statement than that, which you seem to conveniently be ignoring here, since you apparently want to win an argument that no one else seems to be having. Stop telling people to be embarrassed about their ideas. It's a very poor rhetorical strategy. The only benefit it accrues to you is that it riles your supporters up into similarly gnarly expressions of contempt. It certainly doesn't persuade anyone of anything. Who said they were trying to persuade anybody?
    - jack-r-abbit 14y ago
      The internet has a lot of porn... but I don't think it would be reasonable to conclude the internet promotes porn. The world has a lot of racists... but I don't think it would be reasonable to conclude the world promote racism.
      - tptacek 14y ago
        The Internet definitely promotes porn. Reasonable people have observed that Google profits off piracy in other contexts. Your last sentence is a non sequitur.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]

I don't think that's what he said at all. I read it as a criticism of a bad premise. Do you mean to imply that there is so such thing?

by yock 14y ago

I don't think that's what he said at all. I read it as a criticism of a bad premise. Do you mean to imply that there is so such thing?

tptacek 14y ago

He wrote "it's downright shameful for this guy to run around promoting the idea". There is a level of badness at which ideas become shameful to promote, but that's a pretty high bar to clear, and I'm pretty sure electronic brands that don't actually kill people can't clear it at all.

mindcrime 14y ago
There is a level of badness at which ideas become shameful to promote, but that's a pretty high bar to clear In your subjective view, which has exactly zero more, or less, validity here than mine. This feels like you're wasting time, arguing for the sake of being pedantic, or just because you like arguing. Is there some fundamental point you're trying to make here? Because if there is, it doesn't look like anyone else is getting it.
- tptacek 14y ago
  People who disagree with you are not shameful. If we agree there, I think we can just move on.
  - mindcrime 14y ago
    How about stop putting words in my mouth, and then making a big deal out of arguing about it?
jack-r-abbit 14y ago
It really bugs me when people lop off parts of sentences to make a quote in a different context. What he actually wrote was "it's downright shameful for this guy to run around promoting the idea that open devices are designed to enable piracy". The idea that open devices are designed to enable piracy should not really be one of those "well, that is your opinion" type of things. It is a broad generalization that is flat wrong because... well... it is such a broad generalization. Open devices are designed to... uh... be open. To enable user control. To enable hobbyist tinkering. To enable community help. Being that the "enable piracy" idea is dead wrong, promoting it is dangerous & harmful... thus worthy of shame.
- tptacek 14y ago
  I haven't cut off context. You just disagree with his idea so strongly that it upsets you for him to even have it. I don't believe "openness" connotes "intent to enable piracy", but "piracy is far more rampant in the open Android ecosystem than the closed iOS ecosystem" isn't an unreasonable observation to make, and, having made it, "openness promotes piracy" isn't a totally unreasonable conclusion to draw from it. Stop telling people to be embarrassed about their ideas. It's a very poor rhetorical strategy. The only benefit it accrues to you is that it riles your supporters up into similarly gnarly expressions of contempt. It certainly doesn't persuade anyone of anything.
  - mindcrime 14y ago
    and, having made it, "openness promotes piracy" isn't a totally unreasonable conclusion to draw from it. And that isn't what I quoted and replied to. If that was all TFA had said, I probably could have nodded my head and said "Yeah, whatever" and kept going. But TFA made a much stronger statement than that, which you seem to conveniently be ignoring here, since you apparently want to win an argument that no one else seems to be having. Stop telling people to be embarrassed about their ideas. It's a very poor rhetorical strategy. The only benefit it accrues to you is that it riles your supporters up into similarly gnarly expressions of contempt. It certainly doesn't persuade anyone of anything. Who said they were trying to persuade anybody?
  - jack-r-abbit 14y ago
    The internet has a lot of porn... but I don't think it would be reasonable to conclude the internet promotes porn. The world has a lot of racists... but I don't think it would be reasonable to conclude the world promote racism.
    - tptacek 14y ago
      The Internet definitely promotes porn. Reasonable people have observed that Google profits off piracy in other contexts. Your last sentence is a non sequitur.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]