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Except we have thousands of competing Soviets keeping the system healthy.

by BurningFrog 2y ago

wesselbindt 2y ago
Do you consider the current state of things healthy? By what metric?
- BurningFrog 2y ago
  It produces steady progress on most any important metric. Compared with the Soviet system, that makes it vastly superior. Compared to an imagined perfect system, it has many flaws, but that's how the real world is.
  - wesselbindt 2y ago
    > It produces steady progress on most any important metric Some metrics I care about are income equality, homelessness, school shootings, level of education. What are the metrics you care about that you see improving? > Compared with the Soviet system, that makes it vastly superior. I'm sure it's also superior to the feudal system and hunter-gatherer systems. The Soviet system has been gone for three decades, I don't see why we would care to compare the current system to the effects of a system operating in a vastly different economic and political reality, more than 30 years ago. > Compared to an imagined perfect system, it has many flaws, but that's how the real world is. Well sure, that's a truism. That doesn't preclude the existence of realistic more effective or healthy systems.
    - BurningFrog 2y ago
      Sure. But I was commenting on this: > The corporate world generally resembles Soviet culture a lot to me.
      - wesselbindt 2y ago
        Alrighty. I'm still really keen to find out what metrics you personally care about.
bagful 2y ago
As an American, I would not call our system healthy from a practical sense; certainly not for society, if this past decade of mounting instability, distrust, and profiteering is any indication.
- akoboldfrying 2y ago
  I agree, but it's still better, and there's an unusually clear-cut natural experiment to prove it: East and West Germany after WWII.
  - dh2022 2y ago
    Or South Korea vs. North Korea
    - mitthrowaway2 2y ago
      Interestingly, North Korea had a higher GDP per capita than South Korea until the 1970s.
- BurningFrog 2y ago
  It's easy to get discouraged by The News, which will always focus on things going badly. That generates clicks, but it's not a neutral sample of larger trends. The last decade has increased US GDP per person by more than 50% (yes, adjusted for inflation), and launched many innovations making live better and safer.
  - wslh 2y ago
    > The last decade has increased US GDP per person by more than 50% (yes, adjusted for inflation), and launched many innovations making live better and safer. I think what you're referring to is the calculation of US GDP per capita, which is an average. However, this doesn't mean that the typical individual has experienced a 50% improvement in their income or well-being. The distribution of economic gains matters, and GDP per capita doesn't capture that. This is a significant difference.

Except we have thousands of competing Soviets keeping the system healthy.

wesselbindt 2y ago

Do you consider the current state of things healthy? By what metric?

BurningFrog 2y ago
It produces steady progress on most any important metric. Compared with the Soviet system, that makes it vastly superior. Compared to an imagined perfect system, it has many flaws, but that's how the real world is.
- wesselbindt 2y ago
  > It produces steady progress on most any important metric Some metrics I care about are income equality, homelessness, school shootings, level of education. What are the metrics you care about that you see improving? > Compared with the Soviet system, that makes it vastly superior. I'm sure it's also superior to the feudal system and hunter-gatherer systems. The Soviet system has been gone for three decades, I don't see why we would care to compare the current system to the effects of a system operating in a vastly different economic and political reality, more than 30 years ago. > Compared to an imagined perfect system, it has many flaws, but that's how the real world is. Well sure, that's a truism. That doesn't preclude the existence of realistic more effective or healthy systems.
  - BurningFrog 2y ago
    Sure. But I was commenting on this: > The corporate world generally resembles Soviet culture a lot to me.
    - wesselbindt 2y ago
      Alrighty. I'm still really keen to find out what metrics you personally care about.

bagful 2y ago

As an American, I would not call our system healthy from a practical sense; certainly not for society, if this past decade of mounting instability, distrust, and profiteering is any indication.

akoboldfrying 2y ago
I agree, but it's still better, and there's an unusually clear-cut natural experiment to prove it: East and West Germany after WWII.
- dh2022 2y ago
  Or South Korea vs. North Korea
  - mitthrowaway2 2y ago
    Interestingly, North Korea had a higher GDP per capita than South Korea until the 1970s.
BurningFrog 2y ago
It's easy to get discouraged by The News, which will always focus on things going badly. That generates clicks, but it's not a neutral sample of larger trends. The last decade has increased US GDP per person by more than 50% (yes, adjusted for inflation), and launched many innovations making live better and safer.
- wslh 2y ago
  > The last decade has increased US GDP per person by more than 50% (yes, adjusted for inflation), and launched many innovations making live better and safer. I think what you're referring to is the calculation of US GDP per capita, which is an average. However, this doesn't mean that the typical individual has experienced a 50% improvement in their income or well-being. The distribution of economic gains matters, and GDP per capita doesn't capture that. This is a significant difference.