3 ms·

Trump to cancel student visas of pro-Palestinian protesters

29 points by johnneville 2y ago

verdverm 2y ago
1st Amendment topics means the courts will be deciding this one
- EA-3167 2y ago
  The headline isn't really accurate, the article makes matters much clearer: > A fact sheet on the order promises "immediate action" by the Justice Department to prosecute "terroristic threats, arson, vandalism and violence against American Jews" and marshal all federal resources to combat what it called "the explosion of antisemitism on our campuses and streets" since the Oct. 7, 2023, attack on Israel by Palestinian Islamist group Hamas. They aren't just tagging random protesters, it's people who committed crimes during the protests. They would be losing their visas on that basis, not as a result of their speech or right of assembly. Now it may still not happen, there will certainly be court battles, but I wouldn't assume that this is going to end well for the students.
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    Didn’t he pardon all of the J6 folks, even the ones who committed violent crimes?
    - EA-3167 2y ago
      He certainly did, note that I'm not arguing for Trump's consistency, moral probity, or respect for the law. What I am doing is clarifying that this is unlikely to become a 1st Amendment fight.
      - toomuchtodo 2y ago
        In a post truth, post law environment, my concern is “Show me the man and I’ll show you the crime” if an argument is “this only applies to lawbreakers.” How exposed you are is a function of your ability and resources to mount a defense against an administration that does not concern itself with the law.
        verdverm 2y ago
        Even if you haven't crimed, the opacity of what the administration will go after has a social cooling effect as people prefer to be silent over potential prosecution https://www.socialcooling.com/ https://www.socialcooling.com/
      - dragonwriter 2y ago
        > What I am doing is clarifying that this is unlikely to become a 1st Amendment fight. It is 100% going to become a First Amendment fight.
  - verdverm 2y ago
    The EOs they have already used have similarly had a justifiable statement on the surface, but when put into action, they are much more egregious. Legal citizens are already being caught up in the deportation schemes. This will be no different, it is fundamental to how they operate with plausible deniability and impunity
  - dragonwriter 2y ago
    "A fact sheet on the order" is not the order itself or internal implementation instructions, it is public propaganda relating to the order. Inclusion of descriptions off the fact sheet in the article tell you how the administration is trying to sell the order, not substantive information about its effect or planned implementation. EDIT: Additionally, > They aren't just tagging random protesters, it's people who committed crimes during the protests. The order text goes well beyond crimes, and the order would be completely redundant if all that was at issue was crimes committed by visa holders. In fact, the only mention it makes of crime at all is creating an exception from its removal mandate where removal would inhibit prosecution of a crime.
  - archagon 2y ago
    > "To all the resident aliens who joined in the pro-jihadist protests, we put you on notice: come 2025, we will find you, and we will deport you," Trump said in the fact sheet. "I will also quickly cancel the student visas of all Hamas sympathizers on college campuses, which have been infested with radicalism like never before," the president said, echoing a 2024 campaign promise. I see nothing about crimes here, except maybe thought-crimes.
blurbleblurble 2y ago
Is there an alternative hackernews interface that includes flagged but still popular stories?
- nojvek 2y ago
  hn.algolia.com
  - blurbleblurble 2y ago
    Does it have a "front page" view that could show flagged posts with > X upvotes? I think it'd be cool to allow that. Sometimes I get a little concerned that maybe there are networks of HN bots flagging political content. I don't think dang or HN are censoring HN, it's just that it'd be so easy to set up a bunch of accounts that flag stuff you don't want hackernews users to discuss.
- rstuart4133 2y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/active https://news.ycombinator.com/active shows stories ranked by some popularity algorithm. It includes flagged stories. I use it in preference to the usual landing page.

29 points by johnneville 2y ago

verdverm 2y ago

1st Amendment topics means the courts will be deciding this one

EA-3167 2y ago
The headline isn't really accurate, the article makes matters much clearer: > A fact sheet on the order promises "immediate action" by the Justice Department to prosecute "terroristic threats, arson, vandalism and violence against American Jews" and marshal all federal resources to combat what it called "the explosion of antisemitism on our campuses and streets" since the Oct. 7, 2023, attack on Israel by Palestinian Islamist group Hamas. They aren't just tagging random protesters, it's people who committed crimes during the protests. They would be losing their visas on that basis, not as a result of their speech or right of assembly. Now it may still not happen, there will certainly be court battles, but I wouldn't assume that this is going to end well for the students.
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  Didn’t he pardon all of the J6 folks, even the ones who committed violent crimes?
  - EA-3167 2y ago
    He certainly did, note that I'm not arguing for Trump's consistency, moral probity, or respect for the law. What I am doing is clarifying that this is unlikely to become a 1st Amendment fight.
    - toomuchtodo 2y ago
      In a post truth, post law environment, my concern is “Show me the man and I’ll show you the crime” if an argument is “this only applies to lawbreakers.” How exposed you are is a function of your ability and resources to mount a defense against an administration that does not concern itself with the law.
      - verdverm 2y ago
        Even if you haven't crimed, the opacity of what the administration will go after has a social cooling effect as people prefer to be silent over potential prosecution https://www.socialcooling.com/ https://www.socialcooling.com/
    - dragonwriter 2y ago
      > What I am doing is clarifying that this is unlikely to become a 1st Amendment fight. It is 100% going to become a First Amendment fight.
- verdverm 2y ago
  The EOs they have already used have similarly had a justifiable statement on the surface, but when put into action, they are much more egregious. Legal citizens are already being caught up in the deportation schemes. This will be no different, it is fundamental to how they operate with plausible deniability and impunity
- dragonwriter 2y ago
  "A fact sheet on the order" is not the order itself or internal implementation instructions, it is public propaganda relating to the order. Inclusion of descriptions off the fact sheet in the article tell you how the administration is trying to sell the order, not substantive information about its effect or planned implementation. EDIT: Additionally, > They aren't just tagging random protesters, it's people who committed crimes during the protests. The order text goes well beyond crimes, and the order would be completely redundant if all that was at issue was crimes committed by visa holders. In fact, the only mention it makes of crime at all is creating an exception from its removal mandate where removal would inhibit prosecution of a crime.
- archagon 2y ago
  > "To all the resident aliens who joined in the pro-jihadist protests, we put you on notice: come 2025, we will find you, and we will deport you," Trump said in the fact sheet. "I will also quickly cancel the student visas of all Hamas sympathizers on college campuses, which have been infested with radicalism like never before," the president said, echoing a 2024 campaign promise. I see nothing about crimes here, except maybe thought-crimes.

blurbleblurble 2y ago

Is there an alternative hackernews interface that includes flagged but still popular stories?

nojvek 2y ago
hn.algolia.com
- blurbleblurble 2y ago
  Does it have a "front page" view that could show flagged posts with > X upvotes? I think it'd be cool to allow that. Sometimes I get a little concerned that maybe there are networks of HN bots flagging political content. I don't think dang or HN are censoring HN, it's just that it'd be so easy to set up a bunch of accounts that flag stuff you don't want hackernews users to discuss.
rstuart4133 2y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/active https://news.ycombinator.com/active shows stories ranked by some popularity algorithm. It includes flagged stories. I use it in preference to the usual landing page.