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Why do you think the trips are slower than a human? I've only taken one Waymo trip (and my wife two) but in each case it didn't feel any slower than a Lyft. B

Why do you think the trips are slower than a human? I've only taken one Waymo trip (and my wife two) but in each case it didn't feel any slower than a Lyft. But it felt a lot safer! They definitely drive better than any human Lyft driver I've ever had. And the prices seems to roughly match Uber/Lyft. Sometimes they're higher sometimes lower. The one ride I took I chose the more expensive Waymo just for the better experience. You don't have to worry about what the driver might say or do that makes you uncomfortable or unsafe.

someperson 2y ago
Waymos are terrible at taking unprotected left turns into bumper to bumper traffic during peak hour. They aren't aggressive like a normal driver when traffic is stopped and there's a clear but small gap that would result in the car being at an angle crossing traffic. The lidar can't see any gap between cars when trying to turn into a more distant lane, so any obstruction to a close lane due to traffic kills them. Source: been stuck in and observed Waymo in this situation for 10+ minutes several times. A human driver is willing to make the turn much sooner. Don't take a Waymo if you're in a hurry and the route will have such a left turns.
- strifey 2y ago
  Anecdotally, they've gotten much more proactive at taking unprotected lefts in my experience.
  - pesus 2y ago
    They seem to be getting more proactive in general. I was surprised last night when the one I was in went full barrel through a light that was already yellow and turned red while we were still in the intersection.
    - usefulcat 2y ago
      I’ll definitely take that over the Lyft driver I once had who went through a red light 1-2 seconds after it turned red. Not that that’s typical for ride share drivers in my area, but still.
    - guiambros 2y ago
      Ha, I had the exact same experience on a Waymo last night. The light had just turned yellow before we entered the intersection, and I was sure it would slam the brakes (there was no one behind, so no risk of being read-ended). Yet it accelerated and cleared the intersection as the light turned red. It was what any reasonably good driver would do, but certainly edgy for a 100% law-abiding robot. Pretty flawless experience.
- RivieraKid 2y ago
  When was the last time this happened to you?
  - someperson 2y ago
    Last Thursday. I called support after 10 minutes to cancel the ride but the car started moving while I was on the call. That particular one was a traffic light green light with a "do not queue over intersection" area specifically designed to allow cars in my lane to turn onto the main road. The Waymo can't see that there's a gap in the lane it wanted to turn into, and was too conservative about queuing over the intersection at an angle when the light was green like any human would do.
strifey 2y ago
Their wait times tend to be worse, but that's getting better too. The trip speed has also noticeably improved. I've taken about 50 over the past 2 years. Even if they're sometimes slower in pickup or trip time, on average, I greatly value the consistency of the experience over everything else.
bps4484 2y ago
I should first note that I'm a big fan of waymo and want autonomous to succeed generally. I take both waymo's and lyft/uber all the time in sf and waymo's are way slower. I'd estimate it at 10-15% slower. Once the novelty of a waymo wears off you realize that they drive like a high anxiety teenager and going 15 mph on a 15 mph road, coming to gentle full stop at every stop sign, and being very tentative on turns and passing people all add up to a very slow ride. You're right though it definitely feels safer.
- esafak 2y ago
  That's a product decision, though. They want people to feel safe, and to build a sustained record for being safe. They could easily hit the pedal if they wanted to. They are doing the right thing.
  - potato3732842 2y ago
    >They want people to feel safe. "Lawful to a fault teenager" is not what people want in a taxi driver. That type of chauffeur doesn't make people feel safe. It makes them on edge. But unfortunately that's the kind of AI chauffeur regulators want. I agree it's the "right" way to do it from a PR perspective though.
    - jedberg 2y ago
      They don't drive like teenagers do (the Tesla FSD does, but that's another story). A Waymo drives more like a 50 year old who's seen some shit and drives well but defensively.
- miki123211 2y ago
  The sad truth about Waymo is that they have to aim for a 0 (or extremely close to 0) accident rate for PR/regulatory reasons, especially so for accidents caused by Waymo, and that's always going to heavily influence the way they drive. Uber drivers cause accidents sometimes, just like all drivers do. Whenever this happens, we generally blame the driver and not Uber. It's a completely unremarkable event that the media will not pick up on, because everybody knows that car accidents are just a fact of life. If a Waymo causes just one fatal accident, people will be up in arms and demand a ban on self driving. That means they have to be extremely conservative in how they drive, especially as more and more of them appear and the probability of one causing an accident goes up due to simple statistics.

someperson 2y ago

Waymos are terrible at taking unprotected left turns into bumper to bumper traffic during peak hour. They aren't aggressive like a normal driver when traffic is stopped and there's a clear but small gap that would result in the car being at an angle crossing traffic. The lidar can't see any gap between cars when trying to turn into a more distant lane, so any obstruction to a close lane due to traffic kills them. Source: been stuck in and observed Waymo in this situation for 10+ minutes several times. A human driver is willing to make the turn much sooner. Don't take a Waymo if you're in a hurry and the route will have such a left turns.

strifey 2y ago
Anecdotally, they've gotten much more proactive at taking unprotected lefts in my experience.
- pesus 2y ago
  They seem to be getting more proactive in general. I was surprised last night when the one I was in went full barrel through a light that was already yellow and turned red while we were still in the intersection.
  - usefulcat 2y ago
    I’ll definitely take that over the Lyft driver I once had who went through a red light 1-2 seconds after it turned red. Not that that’s typical for ride share drivers in my area, but still.
  - guiambros 2y ago
    Ha, I had the exact same experience on a Waymo last night. The light had just turned yellow before we entered the intersection, and I was sure it would slam the brakes (there was no one behind, so no risk of being read-ended). Yet it accelerated and cleared the intersection as the light turned red. It was what any reasonably good driver would do, but certainly edgy for a 100% law-abiding robot. Pretty flawless experience.
RivieraKid 2y ago
When was the last time this happened to you?
- someperson 2y ago
  Last Thursday. I called support after 10 minutes to cancel the ride but the car started moving while I was on the call. That particular one was a traffic light green light with a "do not queue over intersection" area specifically designed to allow cars in my lane to turn onto the main road. The Waymo can't see that there's a gap in the lane it wanted to turn into, and was too conservative about queuing over the intersection at an angle when the light was green like any human would do.

strifey 2y ago

Their wait times tend to be worse, but that's getting better too. The trip speed has also noticeably improved. I've taken about 50 over the past 2 years. Even if they're sometimes slower in pickup or trip time, on average, I greatly value the consistency of the experience over everything else.

bps4484 2y ago

I should first note that I'm a big fan of waymo and want autonomous to succeed generally. I take both waymo's and lyft/uber all the time in sf and waymo's are way slower. I'd estimate it at 10-15% slower. Once the novelty of a waymo wears off you realize that they drive like a high anxiety teenager and going 15 mph on a 15 mph road, coming to gentle full stop at every stop sign, and being very tentative on turns and passing people all add up to a very slow ride. You're right though it definitely feels safer.

esafak 2y ago
That's a product decision, though. They want people to feel safe, and to build a sustained record for being safe. They could easily hit the pedal if they wanted to. They are doing the right thing.
- potato3732842 2y ago
  >They want people to feel safe. "Lawful to a fault teenager" is not what people want in a taxi driver. That type of chauffeur doesn't make people feel safe. It makes them on edge. But unfortunately that's the kind of AI chauffeur regulators want. I agree it's the "right" way to do it from a PR perspective though.
  - jedberg 2y ago
    They don't drive like teenagers do (the Tesla FSD does, but that's another story). A Waymo drives more like a 50 year old who's seen some shit and drives well but defensively.
miki123211 2y ago
The sad truth about Waymo is that they have to aim for a 0 (or extremely close to 0) accident rate for PR/regulatory reasons, especially so for accidents caused by Waymo, and that's always going to heavily influence the way they drive. Uber drivers cause accidents sometimes, just like all drivers do. Whenever this happens, we generally blame the driver and not Uber. It's a completely unremarkable event that the media will not pick up on, because everybody knows that car accidents are just a fact of life. If a Waymo causes just one fatal accident, people will be up in arms and demand a ban on self driving. That means they have to be extremely conservative in how they drive, especially as more and more of them appear and the probability of one causing an accident goes up due to simple statistics.