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But most people in our profession get to choose their job, don't they? Why would a Python project hire a rust programmer? Why would someone who hates Python wor

by harel 2y ago

But most people in our profession get to choose their job, don't they? Why would a Python project hire a rust programmer? Why would someone who hates Python work on a Python project? I feel the same way. Sporadic use of type hints is nice, and I use it sometimes for reference, like a very succinct comment. But if I want a typed language, Go, Dart, C or even Java are right there.

kaashif 2y ago
> Why would someone who hates Python work on a Python project? I hate every language! For different reasons. But I still like programming.
mbo 2y ago
Because sometimes people choose their jobs prioritizing pay, location, title, company, project, role, coworkers, etc. and the language they will primarily use (or even use on a secondary basis) is a lower priority concern. In my case, I have, in the pursuit of my engineering goals, had to dig into a Python component that I did not normally work on or intend to work on. I am thankful it had type hints.
- harel 2y ago
  But none of these reasons should trigger a "I'm going to change this fundamental thing about x because I don't like it". I don't have anything against typing. I just get annoyed when it gets out of control in a language it wasn't part of to begin with. Just look at how complex typescript typing is to see where it can go. Used pragmatically it's fine. When it's out of control we might as well switch to another language.
  - JambalayaJimbo 2y ago
    The entire ML ecosystem is in python these days. I had a project at work that was Python because of that. Type hints saved me a lot of work in easing other people’s code.
jaredklewis 2y ago
Even if we have some choice of jobs, your model only works if programmers have language as their only or most important requirement when job searching. There are lots of factors that might make a job more or less desirable aside from programming language, like location, salary, team, business domain, and so on. Seems pretty plausible that someone can dislike python and still like a job because it checks other boxes.
Kerrick 2y ago
> Why would a Python project hire a rust programmer? > But most people in our profession get to choose their job, don't they? Let's say someone has only worked in Python professionally but dislikes it. They spent nights & weekends learning Rust. Now they want a Rust job. Because a Rust project would not hire a Python programmer, this person who hates Python is stuck working on Python projects. It's attitudes exactly like "Why would a Python project hire a Rust programmer?" that keep people stuck in languages they don't hate. Those attitudes are the reason a senior software engineer with over a decade in the field can't switch tech stacks. Without that attitude, job postings would be written for programmers, not python programmers, and the job market would be better for it.
rexpop 2y ago
> most people in our profession get to choose their job Choose, yes, but from a finite set. > Men make their own history, but they do not make it as they please; they do not make it under self-selected circumstances, but under circumstances existing already, given and transmitted from the past. The tradition of all dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brains of the living. — Karl Marx, "The 18th Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte"

by harel 2y ago

kaashif 2y ago

> Why would someone who hates Python work on a Python project? I hate every language! For different reasons. But I still like programming.

mbo 2y ago

Because sometimes people choose their jobs prioritizing pay, location, title, company, project, role, coworkers, etc. and the language they will primarily use (or even use on a secondary basis) is a lower priority concern. In my case, I have, in the pursuit of my engineering goals, had to dig into a Python component that I did not normally work on or intend to work on. I am thankful it had type hints.

harel 2y ago
But none of these reasons should trigger a "I'm going to change this fundamental thing about x because I don't like it". I don't have anything against typing. I just get annoyed when it gets out of control in a language it wasn't part of to begin with. Just look at how complex typescript typing is to see where it can go. Used pragmatically it's fine. When it's out of control we might as well switch to another language.
- JambalayaJimbo 2y ago
  The entire ML ecosystem is in python these days. I had a project at work that was Python because of that. Type hints saved me a lot of work in easing other people’s code.

jaredklewis 2y ago

Even if we have some choice of jobs, your model only works if programmers have language as their only or most important requirement when job searching. There are lots of factors that might make a job more or less desirable aside from programming language, like location, salary, team, business domain, and so on. Seems pretty plausible that someone can dislike python and still like a job because it checks other boxes.

Kerrick 2y ago

> Why would a Python project hire a rust programmer? > But most people in our profession get to choose their job, don't they? Let's say someone has only worked in Python professionally but dislikes it. They spent nights & weekends learning Rust. Now they want a Rust job. Because a Rust project would not hire a Python programmer, this person who hates Python is stuck working on Python projects. It's attitudes exactly like "Why would a Python project hire a Rust programmer?" that keep people stuck in languages they don't hate. Those attitudes are the reason a senior software engineer with over a decade in the field can't switch tech stacks. Without that attitude, job postings would be written for programmers, not python programmers, and the job market would be better for it.

rexpop 2y ago

> most people in our profession get to choose their job Choose, yes, but from a finite set. > Men make their own history, but they do not make it as they please; they do not make it under self-selected circumstances, but under circumstances existing already, given and transmitted from the past. The tradition of all dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brains of the living. — Karl Marx, "The 18th Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte"