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They can certainly learn things like using gates, however they don't seem to have a concept of object permanence. If they go to the other side of the fence and

They can certainly learn things like using gates, however they don't seem to have a concept of object permanence. If they go to the other side of the fence and do not find the ball, they will tend to begin a spiraling search for it, rather than concentrate on where the ball logically should be if you tracked the trajectory of it and formed a concept of where it went even after it left your sight.

KittenInABox 2y ago
Dogs obviously have a concept of object permanence, since they know to go around the fence to look for a ball in the first place. They wouldn't look for it once it's left their sight around a fence otherwise. That they're confused if they cannot immediately find the ball only shows that they struggle to calculate arcs, which many humans also do.
- AnotherGoodName 2y ago
  And for anyone with a particularly intelligent but ball obsessed breed of dog you can ask them to get the ball so you can play and they’ll go from the front of the house around the back to pick it up off the top shelf in the shed where you placed it (but forgot yourself, but they remembered) and bring it to you. I absolutely assure you: My border collie knows at all times where the ball is. There’s zero question of object permanance.
  - lesuorac 2y ago
    I swear people who talk about object permanence have never tested it. The Wikipedia article about babies even talks about it not starting until month 8 [1]! At least, under "Contradicting evidence" they talk about other studies that showed as early as 3 months ... I think people just want to feel special and just can't accept that other animals have the same abilities that we do. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object_permanence#Stages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object_permanence#Stages
abdullahkhalids 2y ago
Likely because their brain is optimized to find live prey, which tends to move around and take evasive actions. Intuitively understanding parabolic motion physics is probably not that useful in the wild.

KittenInABox 2y ago

Dogs obviously have a concept of object permanence, since they know to go around the fence to look for a ball in the first place. They wouldn't look for it once it's left their sight around a fence otherwise. That they're confused if they cannot immediately find the ball only shows that they struggle to calculate arcs, which many humans also do.

AnotherGoodName 2y ago
And for anyone with a particularly intelligent but ball obsessed breed of dog you can ask them to get the ball so you can play and they’ll go from the front of the house around the back to pick it up off the top shelf in the shed where you placed it (but forgot yourself, but they remembered) and bring it to you. I absolutely assure you: My border collie knows at all times where the ball is. There’s zero question of object permanance.
- lesuorac 2y ago
  I swear people who talk about object permanence have never tested it. The Wikipedia article about babies even talks about it not starting until month 8 [1]! At least, under "Contradicting evidence" they talk about other studies that showed as early as 3 months ... I think people just want to feel special and just can't accept that other animals have the same abilities that we do. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object_permanence#Stages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object_permanence#Stages

abdullahkhalids 2y ago

Likely because their brain is optimized to find live prey, which tends to move around and take evasive actions. Intuitively understanding parabolic motion physics is probably not that useful in the wild.