4 ms·

I wonder if the waymo solution is very vehicle specific or if it could be easily applied to say, a 10~12 person van that could accommodate a wheelchair? It woul

I wonder if the waymo solution is very vehicle specific or if it could be easily applied to say, a 10~12 person van that could accommodate a wheelchair? It would be interesting to design a transit system around 4~5 times as many vehicles with higher interval or more responsive pathing with something like pick up kiosks.

varelaseb 2y ago
Are you... is this the micro-bus?
ggreer 2y ago
Self-driving makes the most economic sense when fewer people are in a vehicle. With a large van or bus, the cost of the human driver is split between more passengers. Also van or bus service is less compelling to individuals, as it makes them beholden to bus stop locations and schedules instead of picking them up and dropping them off when and where they want. Adding support for wheelchairs introduces new failure modes that would require more software and/or human intervention. For example: Wheelchairs need to be strapped down for safety, and not all wheelchair users can do this themselves.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > With a large van or bus, the cost of the human driver is split between more passengers It's also increased in that one must manage the passengers.
- jasonpeacock 2y ago
  > Also van or bus service is less compelling to individuals, as it makes them beholden to bus stop locations and schedules instead of picking them up and dropping them off when and where they want. Exactly this. The attraction of self-driving transit is the support for individual planning. Everyone gets a direct route to their destination, no delays stopping or detouring for other people. There's also increased safety in having a personal ride. You're not being hassled, stalked, or threatened by random people.
  - no_exit 2y ago
    > You're not being hassled, stalked, or threatened by random people. That's an odd thing to say. The only times I've ever been randomly threatened in public were on the road, by another driver.
    - jasonpeacock 2y ago
      Your privilege is showing ;) A quick search easily found some articles for learning more about the topic: “You’re just constantly on alert”: Women and Gender-Diverse People’s Experiences of Sexual Violence on Public Transport -> https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10515455/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10515455/ Uncovering gender-based violence and harassment in public transport: Lessons for spatial and transport justice -> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0966692323002387 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S09666...
    - potato3732842 2y ago
      >That's an odd thing to say. The only times I've ever been randomly threatened in public were on the road, by another driver. There's a reason we let drunks ride public transit but not drive. The bar for conduct behind the wheel is higher than on the subway because the risks and stakes are much higher hence why people get pissed off much easier. Not getting accosted on the subway is a simple task of not crossing paths with the few people doing the accosting. Not getting accosted on the road requires actively performing in a manner that keeps thing flowing smoothly.
- Retric 2y ago
  That’s offset by dramatically lower prices and significant service in off peak hours. Net result bus drivers are still a large fraction of the cost of bus service.
- kalleboo 2y ago
  I'm seeing a lot of talk of there being a shortage of bus drivers in many places, so self-driving could probably still help increase service
jasonpeacock 2y ago
Many cities are already upgrading their transit systems to implement "rapid ride" where they run buses on a 10min schedule through popular routes. This eliminates the need for planning routes - go the nearest stop, wait 10-15min (sometimes buses get bunched up so it's not really every 10min), and get on the next bus. Buses already have drivers, wheelchair (and bicycle!) support, etc. and the stops usually have live tracking of the next arriving buses.
- microtherion 2y ago
  I recently came across an article on the early years of the Zürich streetcar. In the early 1900s, 5 minute schedules were customary, with one especially busy line running a 3 minute schedule! In contrast, nowadays the peak schedule is 7.5min.
aiauthoritydev 2y ago
Mass manufacturing vehicles is important part of their long term strategy. So I am pretty sure a large van with wheelchair support will be on cards.

varelaseb 2y ago

Are you... is this the micro-bus?

ggreer 2y ago

Self-driving makes the most economic sense when fewer people are in a vehicle. With a large van or bus, the cost of the human driver is split between more passengers. Also van or bus service is less compelling to individuals, as it makes them beholden to bus stop locations and schedules instead of picking them up and dropping them off when and where they want. Adding support for wheelchairs introduces new failure modes that would require more software and/or human intervention. For example: Wheelchairs need to be strapped down for safety, and not all wheelchair users can do this themselves.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> With a large van or bus, the cost of the human driver is split between more passengers It's also increased in that one must manage the passengers.
jasonpeacock 2y ago
> Also van or bus service is less compelling to individuals, as it makes them beholden to bus stop locations and schedules instead of picking them up and dropping them off when and where they want. Exactly this. The attraction of self-driving transit is the support for individual planning. Everyone gets a direct route to their destination, no delays stopping or detouring for other people. There's also increased safety in having a personal ride. You're not being hassled, stalked, or threatened by random people.
- no_exit 2y ago
  > You're not being hassled, stalked, or threatened by random people. That's an odd thing to say. The only times I've ever been randomly threatened in public were on the road, by another driver.
  - jasonpeacock 2y ago
    Your privilege is showing ;) A quick search easily found some articles for learning more about the topic: “You’re just constantly on alert”: Women and Gender-Diverse People’s Experiences of Sexual Violence on Public Transport -> https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10515455/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10515455/ Uncovering gender-based violence and harassment in public transport: Lessons for spatial and transport justice -> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0966692323002387 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S09666...
  - potato3732842 2y ago
    >That's an odd thing to say. The only times I've ever been randomly threatened in public were on the road, by another driver. There's a reason we let drunks ride public transit but not drive. The bar for conduct behind the wheel is higher than on the subway because the risks and stakes are much higher hence why people get pissed off much easier. Not getting accosted on the subway is a simple task of not crossing paths with the few people doing the accosting. Not getting accosted on the road requires actively performing in a manner that keeps thing flowing smoothly.
Retric 2y ago
That’s offset by dramatically lower prices and significant service in off peak hours. Net result bus drivers are still a large fraction of the cost of bus service.
kalleboo 2y ago
I'm seeing a lot of talk of there being a shortage of bus drivers in many places, so self-driving could probably still help increase service

jasonpeacock 2y ago

Many cities are already upgrading their transit systems to implement "rapid ride" where they run buses on a 10min schedule through popular routes. This eliminates the need for planning routes - go the nearest stop, wait 10-15min (sometimes buses get bunched up so it's not really every 10min), and get on the next bus. Buses already have drivers, wheelchair (and bicycle!) support, etc. and the stops usually have live tracking of the next arriving buses.

microtherion 2y ago
I recently came across an article on the early years of the Zürich streetcar. In the early 1900s, 5 minute schedules were customary, with one especially busy line running a 3 minute schedule! In contrast, nowadays the peak schedule is 7.5min.

aiauthoritydev 2y ago

Mass manufacturing vehicles is important part of their long term strategy. So I am pretty sure a large van with wheelchair support will be on cards.