3 ms·

This has been a no-brainer for like a decade but the previous social-democratic government resisted for the fear of bad optics. The cost of housing one crimina

by lysace 2y ago

This has been a no-brainer for like a decade but the previous social-democratic government resisted for the fear of bad optics. The cost of housing one criminal in a Swedish prison is $342/day. This is like 4x the average EU cost, or something similarly crazy. Arbitrage is trivially feasible.

ceejayoz 2y ago
Could be worse. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rikers_Island https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rikers_Island > In a 2021 analysis by the New York City Comptroller, it costs the city approximately $556,539 to detain one person for one year at Rikers Island.
- WorkerBee28474 2y ago
  Something is off about that number. They have a population of 10,000 and an operating budget of 1.3 billion. It can't cost them half a million per inmate.
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    "Costs the city" and "costs the prison" are not the same thing.
    - woodruffw 2y ago
      Yep: the comptroller's estimates include all-in cost to the city, including health care for the city's imprisoned population. Given that Rikers acts as an asylum of last resort, the medical costs of the imprisoned population are likely not insignificant.
      - ceejayoz 2y ago
        Pension costs for the guards are probably also a thing.
  - blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
    Here’s the underlying source: https://comptroller.nyc.gov/newsroom/comptroller-stringer-cost-of-incarceration-per-person-in-new-york-city-skyrockets-to-all-time-high-2/ https://comptroller.nyc.gov/newsroom/comptroller-stringer-co... It’s still not very clear in breaking down the cost, but I suspect it has to do with increasing amounts of violent incidents and related tort claims. That increase is a broader pattern across the NYC Department of Corrections, with per capita assaults on staff quintupling over 10 years: https://comptroller.nyc.gov/reports/nyc-department-of-correction/ https://comptroller.nyc.gov/reports/nyc-department-of-correc...
- jandrese 2y ago
  $1,524.76/day/person. Makes you wonder where the money went. Obviously paying the guard salaries and whatnot adds up, but that's luxury midtown Manhattan hotel room prices for every single inmate. It would be cheaper to hire three people for every single inmate to personally stay with them in 8 hour shifts to make sure they don't get into trouble.
  - lysace 2y ago
    That's just straight-up corruption.
  - BobbyTables2 2y ago
    Plus there should be some sort of economies of scale in a large prison…
- shreezus 2y ago
  This is why we need a push for radical transparency when it comes to public spending. What did they spend $556,539 per inmate on, exactly? Taxpayers deserve an itemized receipt. Otherwise, by accepting overspending as the norm, it obfuscates corruption & large-scale grift as taxpayers get fleeced. There's also substantial opportunity cost - that's $500K+ that could be going toward education or useful public services, that ended up in someone's pockets instead. Transparency invites accountability.
  - nervousvarun 2y ago
    Completely ignorant about how it works but I wonder if medical costs come into play here? Those can get rather sizeable rather quickly in the American for-profit healthcare system. Can't imagine most prisoners have good insurance but I could be completely wrong here.
- lysace 2y ago
  NYC economics is fascinating - but not really an inspiration.
- have-a-break 2y ago
  Makes me wonder if it would be reasonable to pay the prisoners that much to be normal healthy members of society. I know I'd be on my goodie two shoes if I was getting paid $550k a year. Makes me feel like the people who sabotaged my career are just trying to murder me.
  - MrSkelter 2y ago
    You are so close (you being America). Yes. Just pay for a high quality education to tertiary level and beyond for everyone. It would be much cheaper and crime would plummet.
blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
Interesting. That’s pretty high but I guess not surprising. It’s sort of like paying cost of a hotel room and meals and also prison staff. On the other hand, it’s not that much more than what cities like SF or Seattle spend on each homeless person that their programs cover. Unrelated, and I am asking this seriously: isn’t outsourcing imprisonment how the present nation of Australia (excluding indigenous people) got populated?

by lysace 2y ago

ceejayoz 2y ago

Could be worse. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rikers_Island https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rikers_Island > In a 2021 analysis by the New York City Comptroller, it costs the city approximately $556,539 to detain one person for one year at Rikers Island.

WorkerBee28474 2y ago
Something is off about that number. They have a population of 10,000 and an operating budget of 1.3 billion. It can't cost them half a million per inmate.
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  "Costs the city" and "costs the prison" are not the same thing.
  - woodruffw 2y ago
    Yep: the comptroller's estimates include all-in cost to the city, including health care for the city's imprisoned population. Given that Rikers acts as an asylum of last resort, the medical costs of the imprisoned population are likely not insignificant.
    - ceejayoz 2y ago
      Pension costs for the guards are probably also a thing.
- blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
  Here’s the underlying source: https://comptroller.nyc.gov/newsroom/comptroller-stringer-cost-of-incarceration-per-person-in-new-york-city-skyrockets-to-all-time-high-2/ https://comptroller.nyc.gov/newsroom/comptroller-stringer-co... It’s still not very clear in breaking down the cost, but I suspect it has to do with increasing amounts of violent incidents and related tort claims. That increase is a broader pattern across the NYC Department of Corrections, with per capita assaults on staff quintupling over 10 years: https://comptroller.nyc.gov/reports/nyc-department-of-correction/ https://comptroller.nyc.gov/reports/nyc-department-of-correc...
jandrese 2y ago
$1,524.76/day/person. Makes you wonder where the money went. Obviously paying the guard salaries and whatnot adds up, but that's luxury midtown Manhattan hotel room prices for every single inmate. It would be cheaper to hire three people for every single inmate to personally stay with them in 8 hour shifts to make sure they don't get into trouble.
- lysace 2y ago
  That's just straight-up corruption.
- BobbyTables2 2y ago
  Plus there should be some sort of economies of scale in a large prison…
shreezus 2y ago
This is why we need a push for radical transparency when it comes to public spending. What did they spend $556,539 per inmate on, exactly? Taxpayers deserve an itemized receipt. Otherwise, by accepting overspending as the norm, it obfuscates corruption & large-scale grift as taxpayers get fleeced. There's also substantial opportunity cost - that's $500K+ that could be going toward education or useful public services, that ended up in someone's pockets instead. Transparency invites accountability.
- nervousvarun 2y ago
  Completely ignorant about how it works but I wonder if medical costs come into play here? Those can get rather sizeable rather quickly in the American for-profit healthcare system. Can't imagine most prisoners have good insurance but I could be completely wrong here.
lysace 2y ago
NYC economics is fascinating - but not really an inspiration.
have-a-break 2y ago
Makes me wonder if it would be reasonable to pay the prisoners that much to be normal healthy members of society. I know I'd be on my goodie two shoes if I was getting paid $550k a year. Makes me feel like the people who sabotaged my career are just trying to murder me.
- MrSkelter 2y ago
  You are so close (you being America). Yes. Just pay for a high quality education to tertiary level and beyond for everyone. It would be much cheaper and crime would plummet.

blackeyeblitzar 2y ago

Interesting. That’s pretty high but I guess not surprising. It’s sort of like paying cost of a hotel room and meals and also prison staff. On the other hand, it’s not that much more than what cities like SF or Seattle spend on each homeless person that their programs cover. Unrelated, and I am asking this seriously: isn’t outsourcing imprisonment how the present nation of Australia (excluding indigenous people) got populated?