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I’m going to ask, not because I have an agenda but because I’m genuinely ignorant but curious: I see a lot of people mentioning things like mitochondria and spi

I’m going to ask, not because I have an agenda but because I’m genuinely ignorant but curious: I see a lot of people mentioning things like mitochondria and spike proteins; can any of this be caused by the virus OR the vaccine? or just the whole virus? Thanks!

garganzol 2y ago
Any virus and any vaccine can extremely rarely cause a post-viral malaise with similar symptoms. But Covid-19 (as a virus) stands out in terms of frequency of these occurrences moving the needle from "extremely rarely (~never)" to "occasionally (~it happens with my friends and family)". In terms of outcomes and probabilities, having a vaccine is 10000x better than facing a virus directly. Note that in some rare cases, the burden of certain chronical health conditions may overweight the benefits of a vaccine, so it is always better to consult to a doctor who knows you well. Personal anecdotes: I do not know anyone who developed a post-covid condition after being vaccinated, but I know plenty of people who developed a post-covid after covid. I knew people who died from covid not being vaccinated.
- fragmede 2y ago
  There is a tiny handful of people that developed adverse reactions to just the vaccine and it's dishonest to pretend those cases didn't happen just because dumbfucks are going to hear that story and use that as an excuse to not get the vaccine
  - margalabargala 2y ago
    The question here is specifically about chronic, long-term, Long-Covid-like adverse reactions. The vaccine certainly has occasionally caused immediate, acute issues with people, which is why you aren't supposed to leave the administration site for 15 minutes after you get it. But there are not chronic adverse reactions to the vaccines.
    - fragmede 2y ago
      there have been. we really don't talk about those.
      - margalabargala 2y ago
        Source: "It's a secret, trust me bro"
margalabargala 2y ago
Just the whole virus. Let's imagine for a moment that the antigen produced by the vaccine was the exact one that does cause all of these symptoms. Even in this hypothetical world, only the whole virus can cause long term symptoms, because only it can replicate itself and persist. The vaccine expresses itself once, and is gone. All that's left after a few days is the immune system's memory, no different than any other antigen. There is no mechanism for the body to chronically begin to create vaccine spike proteins after receiving the vaccine. There is however a mechanism for the body to attribute any random real or imagined symptom to something they heard about and think sounds right.
SigmundA 2y ago
The mRNA vaccine tells your cells to create the spike protein that was isolated from the original virus for about 48 hours at levels much lower than the virus itself. mRNA is used up by this process which is why your cells stop producing the spike protein and go back to their previous functions. Your immune system then attacks the spike protein and is better adapted to do this next time giving you better protection. The virus takes over your cells completely turning them into covid virus factories destroying them in the process the new viruses then continues until your immune system can stop this. During this time the amount of spike protein from the viruses are much higher by order of magnitude than with the mRNA vaccine along with the damage cause by the virus replicating itself. The spike protein is thought to have some adverse effects around heart issues, it is not well understood. However the risk is thought to be much higher from the virus than the vaccine due to shear volume of spike protein and the data seems to confirm this.
dennis_jeeves2 2y ago
> I see a lot of people mentioning things like mitochondria and spike proteins; can any of this be caused by the virus OR the vaccine? Ask the people who never had the vaccine. There are not many in that category though.
bebeukrmf 2y ago
With vaccine it depends on type and batch. It took some time to refine manufacturing process, quality varies a bit, and some batches were pulled out. If you have a concern, I would suggest get your batch numbers, and ask at relevant forums. There are databases.

garganzol 2y ago

Any virus and any vaccine can extremely rarely cause a post-viral malaise with similar symptoms. But Covid-19 (as a virus) stands out in terms of frequency of these occurrences moving the needle from "extremely rarely (~never)" to "occasionally (~it happens with my friends and family)". In terms of outcomes and probabilities, having a vaccine is 10000x better than facing a virus directly. Note that in some rare cases, the burden of certain chronical health conditions may overweight the benefits of a vaccine, so it is always better to consult to a doctor who knows you well. Personal anecdotes: I do not know anyone who developed a post-covid condition after being vaccinated, but I know plenty of people who developed a post-covid after covid. I knew people who died from covid not being vaccinated.

fragmede 2y ago
There is a tiny handful of people that developed adverse reactions to just the vaccine and it's dishonest to pretend those cases didn't happen just because dumbfucks are going to hear that story and use that as an excuse to not get the vaccine
- margalabargala 2y ago
  The question here is specifically about chronic, long-term, Long-Covid-like adverse reactions. The vaccine certainly has occasionally caused immediate, acute issues with people, which is why you aren't supposed to leave the administration site for 15 minutes after you get it. But there are not chronic adverse reactions to the vaccines.
  - fragmede 2y ago
    there have been. we really don't talk about those.
    - margalabargala 2y ago
      Source: "It's a secret, trust me bro"

margalabargala 2y ago

Just the whole virus. Let's imagine for a moment that the antigen produced by the vaccine was the exact one that does cause all of these symptoms. Even in this hypothetical world, only the whole virus can cause long term symptoms, because only it can replicate itself and persist. The vaccine expresses itself once, and is gone. All that's left after a few days is the immune system's memory, no different than any other antigen. There is no mechanism for the body to chronically begin to create vaccine spike proteins after receiving the vaccine. There is however a mechanism for the body to attribute any random real or imagined symptom to something they heard about and think sounds right.

SigmundA 2y ago

The mRNA vaccine tells your cells to create the spike protein that was isolated from the original virus for about 48 hours at levels much lower than the virus itself. mRNA is used up by this process which is why your cells stop producing the spike protein and go back to their previous functions. Your immune system then attacks the spike protein and is better adapted to do this next time giving you better protection. The virus takes over your cells completely turning them into covid virus factories destroying them in the process the new viruses then continues until your immune system can stop this. During this time the amount of spike protein from the viruses are much higher by order of magnitude than with the mRNA vaccine along with the damage cause by the virus replicating itself. The spike protein is thought to have some adverse effects around heart issues, it is not well understood. However the risk is thought to be much higher from the virus than the vaccine due to shear volume of spike protein and the data seems to confirm this.

dennis_jeeves2 2y ago

> I see a lot of people mentioning things like mitochondria and spike proteins; can any of this be caused by the virus OR the vaccine? Ask the people who never had the vaccine. There are not many in that category though.

bebeukrmf 2y ago

With vaccine it depends on type and batch. It took some time to refine manufacturing process, quality varies a bit, and some batches were pulled out. If you have a concern, I would suggest get your batch numbers, and ask at relevant forums. There are databases.