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Some people have high levels of COVID-19 spike protein, long after main infection is gone. There is very easy way to test for it. Some retroviruses like HIV ar

Some people have high levels of COVID-19 spike protein, long after main infection is gone. There is very easy way to test for it. Some retroviruses like HIV are able to modify DNA, and embed themselves into cells permanently. Perhaps COVID-19 is doing something similar! It would be nice to do DNA scan, for sequences that produce spike proteins, on people with long COVID symptoms!

garganzol 2y ago
Yep, something like spike protein that is more persistent than usual may provoke an inadequate immune response in the body, which is known to cause clotting, which is known to cause tissue hypoxia, which, in turn, is known to induce a mitochondrial dysfunction, starting the vicious cycle of pathology. Chicken and Egg dilemma. We have a lot to discover and formalize. I do not say that you are not right, your suggestion is plausible, we have to find out.
- throw38489595 2y ago
  Sadly long-covid research is very underfunded. Doing a few thousand DNA tests is not that expensive.
  - garganzol 2y ago
    Covid-19 is not a retrovirus. Otherwise, the people would not be able to reliably overcome it again and again. The same applies to post-covid - once you tame it by finding methods of correcting it, it goes away. I agree with you on necessity of further researches, but they require not only money, but also plenty of time, decades perhaps.
    - throw38489595 2y ago
      > reliably overcome it again and again I would disagree with that. We are only a few years in, many people did not recover yet. And taking severe medication is not exactly "correction". There is a research that suggest some unusual COVID-19 variants are able to penetrate cell nucleus. That is why we need DNA sequencing studies! And not just on patients, but their microbiome as well! And I do not think it will take decades, but couple of years maybe months!
treyd 2y ago
Coronaviruses are RNA based and do not carry the reverse-transcriptase proteins (as retroviruses like HIV do) which would be necessary to embed genetic material in host cells' DNA. They directly cause production of the proteins to copy their RNA into new virus capsids.
- throw38489595 2y ago
  Perhaps it is a new variant.
  - kolinko 2y ago
    Proteins like reverse-transcriptase are quite complex, it’s not a mutation that would appear so suddenly. Also, having such a protein would significantly change how the virus operates, and it would be visible upon sequencing it.
    - Wobbles42 2y ago
      I am way outside my area of expertise and speculating wildly here, but aren't various retroviruses quite common in our environment? Enough so that many COVID-19 infections must have occurred simultaneously with one of many such viruses? So, logically, COVID-19 viral components likely have coexisted inside our bodies with some quantity of reverse transcriptase, no? I do know that we find viral DNA in human DNA, likely as a result of past retroviral activity. I wonder if we ever find sequences from non-retroviruses that have hitched a ride so to speak.
      - treyd 2y ago
        Virus genes aren't like lego pieces that just snap together and work. Genetics is a very delicate balance. Retroviral RNA evolved to be packaged up in such a way that it's ready to be transcribed by the reverse transcriptase. Coronaviruses didn't do this. If this was actually what was happening then we'd expect to either see: * (if it utilizes a present retroviral reverse transcriptase) only people with active retrovirus infections getting long COVID * (if a variant picked up the gene from another retrovirus) evidence for reverse transcriptase being copied into a widely circulating variant that for some reason is only activated in some people We don't see either of these things happening. It would be extremely obvious from the data and genetic samples that that happened. There's also generally very little evidence for viruses picking up features across long genetic distances. If this was common we'd see more of it. SARS-CoV-2 also generally infects different types of cells than the ones that HIV does, so even if that was a possibility genetically, it's unlikely because they're not active in the same cells.

garganzol 2y ago

Yep, something like spike protein that is more persistent than usual may provoke an inadequate immune response in the body, which is known to cause clotting, which is known to cause tissue hypoxia, which, in turn, is known to induce a mitochondrial dysfunction, starting the vicious cycle of pathology. Chicken and Egg dilemma. We have a lot to discover and formalize. I do not say that you are not right, your suggestion is plausible, we have to find out.

throw38489595 2y ago
Sadly long-covid research is very underfunded. Doing a few thousand DNA tests is not that expensive.
- garganzol 2y ago
  Covid-19 is not a retrovirus. Otherwise, the people would not be able to reliably overcome it again and again. The same applies to post-covid - once you tame it by finding methods of correcting it, it goes away. I agree with you on necessity of further researches, but they require not only money, but also plenty of time, decades perhaps.
  - throw38489595 2y ago
    > reliably overcome it again and again I would disagree with that. We are only a few years in, many people did not recover yet. And taking severe medication is not exactly "correction". There is a research that suggest some unusual COVID-19 variants are able to penetrate cell nucleus. That is why we need DNA sequencing studies! And not just on patients, but their microbiome as well! And I do not think it will take decades, but couple of years maybe months!

treyd 2y ago

Coronaviruses are RNA based and do not carry the reverse-transcriptase proteins (as retroviruses like HIV do) which would be necessary to embed genetic material in host cells' DNA. They directly cause production of the proteins to copy their RNA into new virus capsids.

throw38489595 2y ago
Perhaps it is a new variant.
- kolinko 2y ago
  Proteins like reverse-transcriptase are quite complex, it’s not a mutation that would appear so suddenly. Also, having such a protein would significantly change how the virus operates, and it would be visible upon sequencing it.
  - Wobbles42 2y ago
    I am way outside my area of expertise and speculating wildly here, but aren't various retroviruses quite common in our environment? Enough so that many COVID-19 infections must have occurred simultaneously with one of many such viruses? So, logically, COVID-19 viral components likely have coexisted inside our bodies with some quantity of reverse transcriptase, no? I do know that we find viral DNA in human DNA, likely as a result of past retroviral activity. I wonder if we ever find sequences from non-retroviruses that have hitched a ride so to speak.
    - treyd 2y ago
      Virus genes aren't like lego pieces that just snap together and work. Genetics is a very delicate balance. Retroviral RNA evolved to be packaged up in such a way that it's ready to be transcribed by the reverse transcriptase. Coronaviruses didn't do this. If this was actually what was happening then we'd expect to either see: * (if it utilizes a present retroviral reverse transcriptase) only people with active retrovirus infections getting long COVID * (if a variant picked up the gene from another retrovirus) evidence for reverse transcriptase being copied into a widely circulating variant that for some reason is only activated in some people We don't see either of these things happening. It would be extremely obvious from the data and genetic samples that that happened. There's also generally very little evidence for viruses picking up features across long genetic distances. If this was common we'd see more of it. SARS-CoV-2 also generally infects different types of cells than the ones that HIV does, so even if that was a possibility genetically, it's unlikely because they're not active in the same cells.