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No matter how much polishing a man does to his appearance / profile the biological reality is that women are sought after and men have to compete for their atte

No matter how much polishing a man does to his appearance / profile the biological reality is that women are sought after and men have to compete for their attention. There's some statistic along the lines of "the average female has about as much 'pull' as a male A list celebrity" This means that women will receive far more attention from the opposite sex, and therefore have an "easier" time finding potential partners. This problem is just exacerbated by dating apps and social media making women more aware of their position and options - 100 years ago women could barely date outside their village. Nowadays they receive 100s of messages from men around the world competing for her attention. The opposite happens to men, they become more aware of how "undesired" they are so they start casting a wider net since no fish are caught in their smaller nets. Blaming the men here just reeks of those toxic standards - since again it is on the men to improve. Not the women who should continue being hyper selective (most attractive, wealthy, etc.). (Note I'm not blaming any side just showing the reality men face - really this is a problem both sexes need to tackle) "easier" is in quotes because I appreciate women have to filter out abusers and creeps. But from the male perspective they'd kill to even have a chance with an abuser or creep.

bloomingkales 2y ago
Is it so hard to believe that going onto a digital marketplace with an order of magnitude more humans than you would ever physically deal with physically is probably what's leading to a type of thalassophobia (the fear of deep or vast bodies of water)? Life is simple. He or she lived in the town, or your school, or was someone you pass by on the way to work daily. It's not some complicated digital dance where the universe presents to you all possible mates. Date the person you wouldn't. Give it a chance, because you just don't know how this love stuff happens.
- miningape 2y ago
  Completely agree - on top of the thalassophobia there’s also decision paralysis, and I’m not sure what you call it but: When you reject the good in hopes for something perfect down the line.
- ebiester 2y ago
  So, if a man has a bad experience, they're out a few hundred bucks and a few hours, in general. Ask a woman who trusts you about their worst experiences sometime.
  - bloomingkales 2y ago
    Safety is super important and I share your concern. I think online dating is similar to the internet. When the Internet started, there was a niche group that were really into it (early adopters). This was also true for dating apps in their infancy. It was safer simply because the pool was self selected (you had to be open minded to even try it). Then the internet became for everyone and so did online dating. When there's that many people involved, things get more unsafe. It's not the same pool of early adopters on the same wavelength. It's everyone now, and everyone includes every wave length. Stay safe!
KittenInABox 2y ago
In my experience women are not statistically hyper selective. The less selective women are just out of the dating pool faster than the hyper selective ones. A lot of the women I know are happy to marry a man who grooms himself, respects basic boundaries, and has income. A lot of religious women in particular are socially pressured to drop the "respects boundaries" category also.
- miningape 2y ago
  I think this is mainly a problem with dating apps - I have seen what you're talking about myself when the pair meets "naturally" or are set up by mutual friends. People are far more forgiving in real life than they are online. But part of the problem here is that the dating apps are like junk food: easy, satisfying, but ultimately unhealthy. And unfortunately because of this ease a lot of people reach for them instead of doing the more difficult leg work. But I can also see it from the female perspective: If almost everyone I swipe right on matches with me - I'd start becoming WAY more selective about who I swipe right on. This leads to less matches but now the guys are also getting even less matches but they can't so easily fix it. The only remedy for the males is to start swiping right on anything that you're not put off by. And again, the men doing this exacerbates the problem - a copulatory ouroboros if you will.
  - ebiester 2y ago
    If you've been set up by mutual friends, that means you have someone vouch for you. That means you're more likely to be safe. A bad experience for you is a bad couple of hours and a few hundred hours. Ask a woman, what is a bad experience for them?
    - miningape 2y ago
      Again you're coming at this with such intense anti-male rhetoric - take a step back and look at the problems beyond your own. Yes I completely agree women DO need to be more careful as they are far more vulnerable and men far more likely to take advantage. HOWEVER, playing off bad experiences for men as "a bad couple of hours" is just disingenuous. Women can absolutely ruin a mans life and reputation in those "couple of hours" - even worse if they get married and she decides to take him to the cleaners. Look, I'm not coming at this as some anti-women basher - I see a societal issue that is hurting our men, women, and future. If we want to actually solve that problem the way forward is not increasing the hatred towards men and isolationism of women. We need to come together and not push each other further apart.
ebiester 2y ago
I think it's instructive to sit down with a woman who trusts you and watch how they evaluate dating profiles. It was certainly eye-opening for me. Your biggest competition is not the other men on the app. It's "do you make their life better than being alone?"
- miningape 2y ago
  > It's "do you make their life better than being alone?" This is a really lovely sentiment and I wish more people approached it like this. I've never set up a dating profile and I don't plan to. But hiding stuff like fish pictures seems a bit over the top, surely if fishing is one of your passions you'd want to end up with someone who at least doesn't judge you for it. Also keep in mind this approach of making sure your dating profile is "optimised" only works until a large enough %age of men's profiles are "optimised" - then its back to square 1 to figure out how to optimise it further to put yourself at the front of the queue again. We've seen what the SEO arms race has done to search engines, do we really want to do the same thing for dating?
  - ebiester 2y ago
    You absolutely can put it in your hobbies! The issue is that you rarely look your best in those pictures, and unless you are explicitly looking to date someone who loves to fish, you aren't showing them how they would integrate into your life.

bloomingkales 2y ago

Is it so hard to believe that going onto a digital marketplace with an order of magnitude more humans than you would ever physically deal with physically is probably what's leading to a type of thalassophobia (the fear of deep or vast bodies of water)? Life is simple. He or she lived in the town, or your school, or was someone you pass by on the way to work daily. It's not some complicated digital dance where the universe presents to you all possible mates. Date the person you wouldn't. Give it a chance, because you just don't know how this love stuff happens.

miningape 2y ago
Completely agree - on top of the thalassophobia there’s also decision paralysis, and I’m not sure what you call it but: When you reject the good in hopes for something perfect down the line.
ebiester 2y ago
So, if a man has a bad experience, they're out a few hundred bucks and a few hours, in general. Ask a woman who trusts you about their worst experiences sometime.
- bloomingkales 2y ago
  Safety is super important and I share your concern. I think online dating is similar to the internet. When the Internet started, there was a niche group that were really into it (early adopters). This was also true for dating apps in their infancy. It was safer simply because the pool was self selected (you had to be open minded to even try it). Then the internet became for everyone and so did online dating. When there's that many people involved, things get more unsafe. It's not the same pool of early adopters on the same wavelength. It's everyone now, and everyone includes every wave length. Stay safe!

KittenInABox 2y ago

In my experience women are not statistically hyper selective. The less selective women are just out of the dating pool faster than the hyper selective ones. A lot of the women I know are happy to marry a man who grooms himself, respects basic boundaries, and has income. A lot of religious women in particular are socially pressured to drop the "respects boundaries" category also.

miningape 2y ago
I think this is mainly a problem with dating apps - I have seen what you're talking about myself when the pair meets "naturally" or are set up by mutual friends. People are far more forgiving in real life than they are online. But part of the problem here is that the dating apps are like junk food: easy, satisfying, but ultimately unhealthy. And unfortunately because of this ease a lot of people reach for them instead of doing the more difficult leg work. But I can also see it from the female perspective: If almost everyone I swipe right on matches with me - I'd start becoming WAY more selective about who I swipe right on. This leads to less matches but now the guys are also getting even less matches but they can't so easily fix it. The only remedy for the males is to start swiping right on anything that you're not put off by. And again, the men doing this exacerbates the problem - a copulatory ouroboros if you will.
- ebiester 2y ago
  If you've been set up by mutual friends, that means you have someone vouch for you. That means you're more likely to be safe. A bad experience for you is a bad couple of hours and a few hundred hours. Ask a woman, what is a bad experience for them?
  - miningape 2y ago
    Again you're coming at this with such intense anti-male rhetoric - take a step back and look at the problems beyond your own. Yes I completely agree women DO need to be more careful as they are far more vulnerable and men far more likely to take advantage. HOWEVER, playing off bad experiences for men as "a bad couple of hours" is just disingenuous. Women can absolutely ruin a mans life and reputation in those "couple of hours" - even worse if they get married and she decides to take him to the cleaners. Look, I'm not coming at this as some anti-women basher - I see a societal issue that is hurting our men, women, and future. If we want to actually solve that problem the way forward is not increasing the hatred towards men and isolationism of women. We need to come together and not push each other further apart.

ebiester 2y ago

I think it's instructive to sit down with a woman who trusts you and watch how they evaluate dating profiles. It was certainly eye-opening for me. Your biggest competition is not the other men on the app. It's "do you make their life better than being alone?"

miningape 2y ago
> It's "do you make their life better than being alone?" This is a really lovely sentiment and I wish more people approached it like this. I've never set up a dating profile and I don't plan to. But hiding stuff like fish pictures seems a bit over the top, surely if fishing is one of your passions you'd want to end up with someone who at least doesn't judge you for it. Also keep in mind this approach of making sure your dating profile is "optimised" only works until a large enough %age of men's profiles are "optimised" - then its back to square 1 to figure out how to optimise it further to put yourself at the front of the queue again. We've seen what the SEO arms race has done to search engines, do we really want to do the same thing for dating?
- ebiester 2y ago
  You absolutely can put it in your hobbies! The issue is that you rarely look your best in those pictures, and unless you are explicitly looking to date someone who loves to fish, you aren't showing them how they would integrate into your life.