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Empiric evidence suggests that macOs does not have any interesting software. People go to great lengths to run Windows programs (through Wine, Steam Proton, VM

by akho 2y ago

Empiric evidence suggests that macOs does not have any interesting software. People go to great lengths to run Windows programs (through Wine, Steam Proton, VM integrations), and Linux stuff (Docker desktop, WSL/WSLG, X servers). macOs stuff seems to be too useless for that kind of effort.

carlosjobim 2y ago
Those users aren't really what I would consider "people", and they should probably use Linux if they want to run software that is especially designed for that platform, such as Docker. Of course if your requirement is that you use specialized Linux tools, then anything that is not Linux will not satisfy you.
- akho 2y ago
  > Those users aren't really what I would consider "people" I think you want to edit that. Apart from that piece of advice, I don’t see how your comment relates to mine, and have nothing to add.
  - carlosjobim 2y ago
    You're focusing on tools and not on outcomes in your previous post. The purpose of a computer is not to use a certain tool, but to achieve a result. The purpose of a car is not to burn a certain kind of fuel, but to transport people. What matters is if it can do that and with what comfort and what cost. Macs are lacking compared to other platforms when it comes to games, which everybody admits. You can say that it is lacking as a server, but I would doubt that. More expensive yes, but you could serve anything you'd like from it if you want to. When it comes to very industry specific software, which is used by maybe 3 companies worldwide, those applications do not have any importance for comparing platforms.
    - akho 2y ago
      In that sense (having software for the most common of activities), all mainstream OSes (and some non-mainstream ones) have a “healthy native app ecosystem”. This is pointless copium. What matters is stuff for which there are no workable alternatives elsewhere. I can try and write a condescending automotive metaphor, if you like those, but I’d prefer not to.
      - carlosjobim 2y ago
        > What matters is stuff for which there are no workable alternatives elsewhere. But we have to limit ourselves to somewhat common use cases. If a company is making a piece of software especially for one or two big clients in their industry, then that has nothing to say about any personal computing platform. Your example Docker is software which has been especially created to deal with the shortcomings of Linux. Of course we cannot expect it to be great on any other platform. Likewise, we cannot blame MacOS for lacking specific software that has been made by people who explicitly hate Apple, such as a lot of self hosted and open source stuff. Most Mac users do not mess about with virtual machines or WSL/WSLG, as in your examples. But there are myriad personal and professional use cases that are supported by good native software. In comparison Linux is lacking in native apps. No good photo editor, no good office suite, no good e-mail client. So I wouldn't call it a strong platform if we compare. And it isn't copium to me. It's quality of life question to be able to use native software, and as a non-programmer I can be more productive with GUI software that isn't some laggy cloud service.
kolinko 2y ago
What specific piece of software are you missing on a mac? Aside from games, or industry-specific apps (like the goddamn KNX configurator, or CNC controllers), everything is there, at least for me, and with consistent and stable user experience.
- akho 2y ago
  I don’t use a mac. As I said — people do not try to run mac-exclusive software elsewhere, even though that’s the norm for most other platforms. That means that there is not enough software, or it’s not sufficiently desirable. > Aside from games, or industry-specific software, everything is there This is funny. Apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the freshwater system, and public health… what have the Romans ever done for us?
mostlysimilar 2y ago
Microsoft spent decades and billions of dollars buying their way to market dominance. They didn't achieve it through having a superior product, they achieved it through bullying. Software developers were forced to write software for Windows in order to reach an audience. The fact that people will choose a different platform and begrudgingly emulate the software that's stuck on Windows is a knock against Windows, not a knock against the other platforms.

by akho 2y ago

carlosjobim 2y ago

Those users aren't really what I would consider "people", and they should probably use Linux if they want to run software that is especially designed for that platform, such as Docker. Of course if your requirement is that you use specialized Linux tools, then anything that is not Linux will not satisfy you.

akho 2y ago
> Those users aren't really what I would consider "people" I think you want to edit that. Apart from that piece of advice, I don’t see how your comment relates to mine, and have nothing to add.
- carlosjobim 2y ago
  You're focusing on tools and not on outcomes in your previous post. The purpose of a computer is not to use a certain tool, but to achieve a result. The purpose of a car is not to burn a certain kind of fuel, but to transport people. What matters is if it can do that and with what comfort and what cost. Macs are lacking compared to other platforms when it comes to games, which everybody admits. You can say that it is lacking as a server, but I would doubt that. More expensive yes, but you could serve anything you'd like from it if you want to. When it comes to very industry specific software, which is used by maybe 3 companies worldwide, those applications do not have any importance for comparing platforms.
  - akho 2y ago
    In that sense (having software for the most common of activities), all mainstream OSes (and some non-mainstream ones) have a “healthy native app ecosystem”. This is pointless copium. What matters is stuff for which there are no workable alternatives elsewhere. I can try and write a condescending automotive metaphor, if you like those, but I’d prefer not to.
    - carlosjobim 2y ago
      > What matters is stuff for which there are no workable alternatives elsewhere. But we have to limit ourselves to somewhat common use cases. If a company is making a piece of software especially for one or two big clients in their industry, then that has nothing to say about any personal computing platform. Your example Docker is software which has been especially created to deal with the shortcomings of Linux. Of course we cannot expect it to be great on any other platform. Likewise, we cannot blame MacOS for lacking specific software that has been made by people who explicitly hate Apple, such as a lot of self hosted and open source stuff. Most Mac users do not mess about with virtual machines or WSL/WSLG, as in your examples. But there are myriad personal and professional use cases that are supported by good native software. In comparison Linux is lacking in native apps. No good photo editor, no good office suite, no good e-mail client. So I wouldn't call it a strong platform if we compare. And it isn't copium to me. It's quality of life question to be able to use native software, and as a non-programmer I can be more productive with GUI software that isn't some laggy cloud service.

kolinko 2y ago

What specific piece of software are you missing on a mac? Aside from games, or industry-specific apps (like the goddamn KNX configurator, or CNC controllers), everything is there, at least for me, and with consistent and stable user experience.

akho 2y ago
I don’t use a mac. As I said — people do not try to run mac-exclusive software elsewhere, even though that’s the norm for most other platforms. That means that there is not enough software, or it’s not sufficiently desirable. > Aside from games, or industry-specific software, everything is there This is funny. Apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the freshwater system, and public health… what have the Romans ever done for us?

mostlysimilar 2y ago

Microsoft spent decades and billions of dollars buying their way to market dominance. They didn't achieve it through having a superior product, they achieved it through bullying. Software developers were forced to write software for Windows in order to reach an audience. The fact that people will choose a different platform and begrudgingly emulate the software that's stuck on Windows is a knock against Windows, not a knock against the other platforms.