4 ms·

This is exactly what happened to me. I wanted to know what it is, opened those pages in tabs, read half of first one and skipped to the second one. It was soooo

This is exactly what happened to me. I wanted to know what it is, opened those pages in tabs, read half of first one and skipped to the second one. It was soooo long (http://docs.datomic.com/tutorial.html http://docs.datomic.com/tutorial.html) I knew I couldn't finish reading it in less than 5 hours and came here to ask: What is this, and why/who would want to use it? It could be useful for a project I'm working on, but I just couldn't understand what the damn thing is. And the fact that I have a headache obviously doesn't help.

pooriaazimi 14y ago
OK. The FAQ is better, but not ideal: http://www.datomic.com/faq.html http://www.datomic.com/faq.html
kinleyd 14y ago
Probably the best way to get your mind around Datomic conceptually would be to watch these introductory videos[1] Rich and Stu put together when first introducing Datomic. It's pretty revolutionary, IMO. Edit: In response to those too pressed for time to watch the videos, you can read the rationale[2] for Datomic. However, it is a bit long. Rich and Stu may want to summarize it for the really pressed for time. :) [1] http://www.datomic.com/videos.html http://www.datomic.com/videos.html [2] http://www.datomic.com/rationale.html http://www.datomic.com/rationale.html
- jskopek 14y ago
  I've seen a number of comments over the last few weeks to the effect of "if you don't understand this product, watch the intro video". In my opinion, if a product can't be described in a couple of concise sentences, it's going to run into some major roadblocks in getting traction. Watching a video incurs a number of costs - the time taken to watch the video, the effort of plugging in headphones, the pain of buffering content. All of these are minor obstacles, but you want to eliminate as many reasons to leave as possible when attracting a new customer.
  - pchristensen 14y ago
    This isn't meant as a slight to you, but I think that Clojure in general and Datomic specifically (as a newer product) isn't looking for the most customers. They're looking for the right ones that share their vision for programming. It still requires watching a video, but the video "Simple Made Easy" by Rich Hickey (http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Simple-Made-Easy/ http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Simple-Made-Easy/) describes it best. If that doesn't appeal to you, then don't worry about what you're missing in Datomic.
    - Scriptor 14y ago
      Actually, someone did a great job succinctly explaining it: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4286701 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4286701 The attitude that Clojure is only for some enlightened few who are worthy enough to understand it is extremely alienating. Lisps aren't that hard, homoiconicity isn't that opaque, the benefits of using Clojure can be explained in practical terms that most developers can understand, if not at first be convinced by. All these concepts can be explained succinctly in text. Saying that Clojure is only for those who share some 'vision' is hand-wavy at best, insulting at worst. Edit: My guess is that Datomic is targeted towards Clojure devs because they are already experienced with Datomic's philosophy and will understand the system better. It also provides a smaller and highly receptive market. They can then focus on perfecting the software instead of training a large number of people in the philosophy behind Clojure and Datomic.
      - evolve2k 14y ago
        Anyone here who knows the product want to have a go at proving a simple tag line, short about that would be suitable to use on their inbound marketing blog?
      - pchristensen 14y ago
        I didn't say that Clojure is for enlightened few or super hard to learn, I meant that Datomic/Clojure is currently targeted to people who already agree with Hickey and the other core developers. The 'vision' isn't some grand thing, just a strict adherence to simplicity and immutability as a way to improve program correctness. I think we're in violent agreement.
- pooriaazimi 14y ago
  I watched the first video. It wasn't much better than thee docs; still a little obscure and was just "talk" without any solid examples or use cases. But finally, at around 13:30, they get to say what they mean by "fact". If you want to know if it's something that can be useful to you, you can just skip to this part of video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKcqYZZ9RDY&feature=player_detailpage#t=808s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKcqYZZ9RDY&feature=playe...
- franzus 14y ago
  Ok, but what does it do? In one sentence.

pooriaazimi 14y ago

OK. The FAQ is better, but not ideal: http://www.datomic.com/faq.html http://www.datomic.com/faq.html

kinleyd 14y ago

Probably the best way to get your mind around Datomic conceptually would be to watch these introductory videos[1] Rich and Stu put together when first introducing Datomic. It's pretty revolutionary, IMO. Edit: In response to those too pressed for time to watch the videos, you can read the rationale[2] for Datomic. However, it is a bit long. Rich and Stu may want to summarize it for the really pressed for time. :) [1] http://www.datomic.com/videos.html http://www.datomic.com/videos.html [2] http://www.datomic.com/rationale.html http://www.datomic.com/rationale.html

jskopek 14y ago
I've seen a number of comments over the last few weeks to the effect of "if you don't understand this product, watch the intro video". In my opinion, if a product can't be described in a couple of concise sentences, it's going to run into some major roadblocks in getting traction. Watching a video incurs a number of costs - the time taken to watch the video, the effort of plugging in headphones, the pain of buffering content. All of these are minor obstacles, but you want to eliminate as many reasons to leave as possible when attracting a new customer.
- pchristensen 14y ago
  This isn't meant as a slight to you, but I think that Clojure in general and Datomic specifically (as a newer product) isn't looking for the most customers. They're looking for the right ones that share their vision for programming. It still requires watching a video, but the video "Simple Made Easy" by Rich Hickey (http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Simple-Made-Easy/ http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Simple-Made-Easy/) describes it best. If that doesn't appeal to you, then don't worry about what you're missing in Datomic.
  - Scriptor 14y ago
    Actually, someone did a great job succinctly explaining it: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4286701 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4286701 The attitude that Clojure is only for some enlightened few who are worthy enough to understand it is extremely alienating. Lisps aren't that hard, homoiconicity isn't that opaque, the benefits of using Clojure can be explained in practical terms that most developers can understand, if not at first be convinced by. All these concepts can be explained succinctly in text. Saying that Clojure is only for those who share some 'vision' is hand-wavy at best, insulting at worst. Edit: My guess is that Datomic is targeted towards Clojure devs because they are already experienced with Datomic's philosophy and will understand the system better. It also provides a smaller and highly receptive market. They can then focus on perfecting the software instead of training a large number of people in the philosophy behind Clojure and Datomic.
    - evolve2k 14y ago
      Anyone here who knows the product want to have a go at proving a simple tag line, short about that would be suitable to use on their inbound marketing blog?
    - pchristensen 14y ago
      I didn't say that Clojure is for enlightened few or super hard to learn, I meant that Datomic/Clojure is currently targeted to people who already agree with Hickey and the other core developers. The 'vision' isn't some grand thing, just a strict adherence to simplicity and immutability as a way to improve program correctness. I think we're in violent agreement.
pooriaazimi 14y ago
I watched the first video. It wasn't much better than thee docs; still a little obscure and was just "talk" without any solid examples or use cases. But finally, at around 13:30, they get to say what they mean by "fact". If you want to know if it's something that can be useful to you, you can just skip to this part of video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKcqYZZ9RDY&feature=player_detailpage#t=808s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKcqYZZ9RDY&feature=playe...
franzus 14y ago
Ok, but what does it do? In one sentence.