2 ms·

Or you could just say, "Yes, white lives matter" and move on. What do you mean what does it mean? It means the opposite of white lives don't matter. The quest

Or you could just say, "Yes, white lives matter" and move on. What do you mean what does it mean? It means the opposite of white lives don't matter. The question is really simple; even if someone asking it had poor motives, there's really no room in the simplicity of that specific question to encode those motives. You're not agreeing with their motives if you answer that question the way they want. If you start picking it apart, it can seem as if it's not obvious to you to disagree with the idea that white lives don't matter. Like it's conditional on something you have to think about. Why fall into that trap.

iinnPP 2y ago
I don't recall a whole lot of "white lives matter." Rather a lot of "All lives matter." Though I recall a lot of people treating the statement as if black lives were not included in all lives. Including ascribing intent on people, even if those people clarified themselves. So to answer your question: the reason many didn't move on is because they didn't want to understand, which is pretty damning to moving on.
- kazinator 2y ago
  The obvious purpose of these "white lives matter" and "all lives matter" memes was to distract from the "black lives matter" campaign/movement as if to say that equality negates the legitimacy of highlighting the continuing struggles of a group that has been historically ill-treated and continues to face discrimination. However, we can agree with the "white lives matter" and "all lives matter" statements. The "black lives matter" slogan is based in the idea that people in America have been treated as if their lives didn't matter, because they were black. People in America were not treated as if their lives didn't matter due to being white, so no such a slogan would be necessary for any such a reason. "White lives matter" is trolling, basically.
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    [deleted]
troad 2y ago
> Or you could just say, "Yes, white lives matter" and move on. Which people will interpret as a support for the far-right. You may not intend that, but that's how people will interpret it, and your intentions are neither here nor there. You may not care what people think, but your neighbours will. "Did you hear Jim's a racist?" "Do we really want someone who walks around chanting 'white lives matter' to be coaching the high school football team?" "He claims he didn't mean that, but of course that's what he would say." "I don't even know what he said exactly, but everyone's saying he's a racist, and I think the kids are just too important to take any chances." Welcome to living in a society. 'Moving on' is not a choice for you, it's a choice for everyone else. And society is pretty bad at that, historically. > What do you mean what does it mean? It means the opposite of white lives don't matter. > The question is really simple; even if someone asking it had poor motives, there's really no room in the simplicity of that specific question to encode those motives. You're not agreeing with their motives if you answer that question the way they want. Words can and do have symbolic weight. If a college professor starts talking about neo-colonial core-periphery dialectic, you can make a reasonable guess about his political priors. If someone calls pro-life protesters 'anti-choice', you can make a reasonable guess about their views on abortion. If someone out there starts telling you that 'we must secure a future for white children' after a few beers, they're not making a facially neutral point about how children deserve to thrive, they're in fact a pretty hard-core racist. [0] You can choose to ignore words-as-symbols, but good luck expecting everyone else to do so. [0] Context: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words
- kazinator 2y ago
  > Which people will interpret as a support for the far-right. Those people might as well join the far right. > your intentions are neither here nor there If intentions really are neither here nor there, then we can examine a statement or question without caring about intentions. > Do we really want someone who walks around chanting 'white lives matter' to be coaching the high school football team? Well, no; it would have to be more like: Do we really want someone who answers "yes" when a racist asks "do white lives matter?" to be coaching the high schoool football team? > you can make a reasonable guess about his political priors You likely can, and yet I think the answer to their question is yes, white lives do matter, and someone in charge of children which include white children must think about securing a future for the white ones too. > but good luck expecting everyone else to do so. I would say that looking for negative motivations and interpretations in everyone's words is a negative personality trait that is on par with racism, similarly effective in feeding divisiveness. It's like words have skin color and they are going by that instead of what the words say. Therefore we should watch that we don't do this, and likewise expect the same of others.

iinnPP 2y ago

I don't recall a whole lot of "white lives matter." Rather a lot of "All lives matter." Though I recall a lot of people treating the statement as if black lives were not included in all lives. Including ascribing intent on people, even if those people clarified themselves. So to answer your question: the reason many didn't move on is because they didn't want to understand, which is pretty damning to moving on.

kazinator 2y ago
The obvious purpose of these "white lives matter" and "all lives matter" memes was to distract from the "black lives matter" campaign/movement as if to say that equality negates the legitimacy of highlighting the continuing struggles of a group that has been historically ill-treated and continues to face discrimination. However, we can agree with the "white lives matter" and "all lives matter" statements. The "black lives matter" slogan is based in the idea that people in America have been treated as if their lives didn't matter, because they were black. People in America were not treated as if their lives didn't matter due to being white, so no such a slogan would be necessary for any such a reason. "White lives matter" is trolling, basically.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

troad 2y ago

> Or you could just say, "Yes, white lives matter" and move on. Which people will interpret as a support for the far-right. You may not intend that, but that's how people will interpret it, and your intentions are neither here nor there. You may not care what people think, but your neighbours will. "Did you hear Jim's a racist?" "Do we really want someone who walks around chanting 'white lives matter' to be coaching the high school football team?" "He claims he didn't mean that, but of course that's what he would say." "I don't even know what he said exactly, but everyone's saying he's a racist, and I think the kids are just too important to take any chances." Welcome to living in a society. 'Moving on' is not a choice for you, it's a choice for everyone else. And society is pretty bad at that, historically. > What do you mean what does it mean? It means the opposite of white lives don't matter. > The question is really simple; even if someone asking it had poor motives, there's really no room in the simplicity of that specific question to encode those motives. You're not agreeing with their motives if you answer that question the way they want. Words can and do have symbolic weight. If a college professor starts talking about neo-colonial core-periphery dialectic, you can make a reasonable guess about his political priors. If someone calls pro-life protesters 'anti-choice', you can make a reasonable guess about their views on abortion. If someone out there starts telling you that 'we must secure a future for white children' after a few beers, they're not making a facially neutral point about how children deserve to thrive, they're in fact a pretty hard-core racist. [0] You can choose to ignore words-as-symbols, but good luck expecting everyone else to do so. [0] Context: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words

kazinator 2y ago
> Which people will interpret as a support for the far-right. Those people might as well join the far right. > your intentions are neither here nor there If intentions really are neither here nor there, then we can examine a statement or question without caring about intentions. > Do we really want someone who walks around chanting 'white lives matter' to be coaching the high school football team? Well, no; it would have to be more like: Do we really want someone who answers "yes" when a racist asks "do white lives matter?" to be coaching the high schoool football team? > you can make a reasonable guess about his political priors You likely can, and yet I think the answer to their question is yes, white lives do matter, and someone in charge of children which include white children must think about securing a future for the white ones too. > but good luck expecting everyone else to do so. I would say that looking for negative motivations and interpretations in everyone's words is a negative personality trait that is on par with racism, similarly effective in feeding divisiveness. It's like words have skin color and they are going by that instead of what the words say. Therefore we should watch that we don't do this, and likewise expect the same of others.