4 ms·

> The first part is true, the second is not People wanted this because news and social media have told them to want – both which are functionally mouth-pieces

> The first part is true, the second is not People wanted this because news and social media have told them to want – both which are functionally mouth-pieces of the ultra-wealthy. News has been consolidating into fewer hands for decades; it’s only getting worse, and their owners more emboldened. The popular social media sites, when not owned and manipulated directly by their owning oligarchs, are subject to a massive amount of astroturfing bankrolled by other ultra-wealthy folks. The wealthy chose Trump, and so it is. We aren’t completely bystanders, but the cards are unimaginably stacked against us. We need to break up massive media companies, get rid of manipulative algorithms, and fight tooth and nail to get money out of politics – as much as we can.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
1659447091 2y ago
> People wanted this because news and social media have told them to want ... > are subject to a massive amount of astroturfing ... The wealthy chose Trump, and so it is People refuse to believe this can happen to them. Just as people do not believe they can be influenced by TikTok algos or advertising. They would know if it were happening to them; doesn't matter if they are left right east west up down or sideways, they are special snowflakes and it's those "others" that are the sheep that fall for it. I did a stint in door-to-door sales (during a period of burn-out); as much as I didn't want to believe the shifty sales consultant that would come in and give sales training clinics, it's the people that absolutely know for sure they are not buying that were the ones I liked best--they won't be "tricked" or persuaded. No tricks needed, my personal ethics would not allow it even though there were "tips & suggestions" other sales people gave out; those that claim to be unsellable were almost always the sales I got the most commission from.
- nickpp 2y ago
  The exact same argument, that Trump voters were “influenced” by algos, can be made that anti-Trump voters were influenced by mainstream media or whatever. So you either believe that people have agency and actually decide for themselves, or that they are puppets and democracy is a sham.
  - 1659447091 2y ago
    Maybe re-read what I wrote? > So you either believe that people have agency and actually decide for themselves, or that they are puppets and democracy is a sham. Do you always think in such binary terms? Life is nuanced, there very few absolute binaries, but as I originally pointed out, those that hold on to that "either or" absolute type of thinking were my easiest, most profitable sales.
  - spencerflem 2y ago
    Mainstream media is also for Trump - look at the contortions NYT et. al. are making to excuse Elon's Nazi salute.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

1659447091 2y ago

> People wanted this because news and social media have told them to want ... > are subject to a massive amount of astroturfing ... The wealthy chose Trump, and so it is People refuse to believe this can happen to them. Just as people do not believe they can be influenced by TikTok algos or advertising. They would know if it were happening to them; doesn't matter if they are left right east west up down or sideways, they are special snowflakes and it's those "others" that are the sheep that fall for it. I did a stint in door-to-door sales (during a period of burn-out); as much as I didn't want to believe the shifty sales consultant that would come in and give sales training clinics, it's the people that absolutely know for sure they are not buying that were the ones I liked best--they won't be "tricked" or persuaded. No tricks needed, my personal ethics would not allow it even though there were "tips & suggestions" other sales people gave out; those that claim to be unsellable were almost always the sales I got the most commission from.

nickpp 2y ago
The exact same argument, that Trump voters were “influenced” by algos, can be made that anti-Trump voters were influenced by mainstream media or whatever. So you either believe that people have agency and actually decide for themselves, or that they are puppets and democracy is a sham.
- 1659447091 2y ago
  Maybe re-read what I wrote? > So you either believe that people have agency and actually decide for themselves, or that they are puppets and democracy is a sham. Do you always think in such binary terms? Life is nuanced, there very few absolute binaries, but as I originally pointed out, those that hold on to that "either or" absolute type of thinking were my easiest, most profitable sales.
- spencerflem 2y ago
  Mainstream media is also for Trump - look at the contortions NYT et. al. are making to excuse Elon's Nazi salute.