4 ms·

I suspect the goal is to make it not viable for any company to host the model and provide API services and create a choke point with deepseek.com This is actua

by sdesol 2y ago

I suspect the goal is to make it not viable for any company to host the model and provide API services and create a choke point with deepseek.com This is actually quite serious in my opinion, as running the 671B model is not trivial and I was hoping more vendors would pop up to provide API services.

bubblethink 2y ago
This is an open-weights model. There is literally nothing that the government can do to stop anyone from hosting the model. People hosting R1 have no relationship with MS or OpenAI. There is no contractual violation, no copyright violation.
- sdesol 2y ago
  > There is literally nothing that the government can do to stop anyone from hosting the model. I admire your optimism but the simple fact is, you have a person in power that can be easily bribed and you have VERY rich people that stand to lose a lot. DeepSeek v3 is something I would actually install a VPN for, to get access to it, if it becomes an issue in Canada. It truly is on par with Sonnet and cost 15 times less. My hope is, people will start to use DeepSeek v3 to do what DeepSeek is accused of having done and by the time things make it to court, it would be too late as there would be no way to say where any of the data came from.
  - bubblethink 2y ago
    That's not how any of this works. The fear mongering has no basis. Deepseek the company is not related to the weights of the model. The model cannot be outlawed. At worst, you can block Deepseek the company from the app store, cloud providers etc. That has nothing to do with the model.
    - sdesol 2y ago
      > Deepseek the company is not related to the weights of the model. I know the model is there, but running the 671B model would literally not make sense unless you can provide services at scale. The only reason that I, and others care is DeepSeek costs 15 times less than Sonnet. Stopping DeepSeek from offering their service at that price is the whole point of why OpenAI and Microsoft is now serious about all of this. I believe the goal is to prevent any other provider from providing the models as an API service. OpenAI and Anthropic charge as much as they do because they bake in high salaries and R&D. With the weights freely available, the only cost is just hardware and support staff.
maeil 2y ago
As far as Ive seen there's already at least 4 alternative providers out there and that's within days of release. Then there's all the distillations and all the projects to rebuild it. It's not trivial to run it but also nowhere near a significant barrier, especially if it's for personal use. There's another thread here where someone else ran the full model on a beefy Hetzner server. Most people on HN could probably accomplish that given a few days at most, some could do it immediately.
- sdesol 2y ago
  At the price point that DeepSeek is charging?
  - maeil 2y ago
    Some of them are close, most are cheaper than Sonnet 3.5, all of them are multiples cheaper than O1.
    - sdesol 2y ago
      Yeah I took a look at some of them and they are okay. I may need to switch to them as DeepSeek doesn't look like they can keep up with demand.
ashoeafoot 2y ago
Surely,any minute now the free market of ideas will have the invisible hand throw invisible fingers.

by sdesol 2y ago

bubblethink 2y ago

This is an open-weights model. There is literally nothing that the government can do to stop anyone from hosting the model. People hosting R1 have no relationship with MS or OpenAI. There is no contractual violation, no copyright violation.

sdesol 2y ago
> There is literally nothing that the government can do to stop anyone from hosting the model. I admire your optimism but the simple fact is, you have a person in power that can be easily bribed and you have VERY rich people that stand to lose a lot. DeepSeek v3 is something I would actually install a VPN for, to get access to it, if it becomes an issue in Canada. It truly is on par with Sonnet and cost 15 times less. My hope is, people will start to use DeepSeek v3 to do what DeepSeek is accused of having done and by the time things make it to court, it would be too late as there would be no way to say where any of the data came from.
- bubblethink 2y ago
  That's not how any of this works. The fear mongering has no basis. Deepseek the company is not related to the weights of the model. The model cannot be outlawed. At worst, you can block Deepseek the company from the app store, cloud providers etc. That has nothing to do with the model.
  - sdesol 2y ago
    > Deepseek the company is not related to the weights of the model. I know the model is there, but running the 671B model would literally not make sense unless you can provide services at scale. The only reason that I, and others care is DeepSeek costs 15 times less than Sonnet. Stopping DeepSeek from offering their service at that price is the whole point of why OpenAI and Microsoft is now serious about all of this. I believe the goal is to prevent any other provider from providing the models as an API service. OpenAI and Anthropic charge as much as they do because they bake in high salaries and R&D. With the weights freely available, the only cost is just hardware and support staff.

maeil 2y ago

As far as Ive seen there's already at least 4 alternative providers out there and that's within days of release. Then there's all the distillations and all the projects to rebuild it. It's not trivial to run it but also nowhere near a significant barrier, especially if it's for personal use. There's another thread here where someone else ran the full model on a beefy Hetzner server. Most people on HN could probably accomplish that given a few days at most, some could do it immediately.

sdesol 2y ago
At the price point that DeepSeek is charging?
- maeil 2y ago
  Some of them are close, most are cheaper than Sonnet 3.5, all of them are multiples cheaper than O1.
  - sdesol 2y ago
    Yeah I took a look at some of them and they are okay. I may need to switch to them as DeepSeek doesn't look like they can keep up with demand.

ashoeafoot 2y ago

Surely,any minute now the free market of ideas will have the invisible hand throw invisible fingers.