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> Latest iPhone update poised to work with upcoming service Um well yeah the whole idea of starlink direct to cell is that it works with unmodified mobile phon

> Latest iPhone update poised to work with upcoming service Um well yeah the whole idea of starlink direct to cell is that it works with unmodified mobile phones so this isn't really a suprise. What surprises me more is that apple is even working with starlink considering they have a competing service together with globalstar. Which is kinda their moat since all attempts on the Android side have failed (qualcomm had a deal with iridium and killed it within the year before it even launched, and bullitt (CAT/Motorola) which had a deal with Inmarsat went bankrupt. The sat part was spun off but without ongoing hardware releases this will be a dead end.

imoverclocked 2y ago
> What surprises me more is that apple is even working with starlink considering they have a competing service together with globalstar Apple also works with competing terrestrial cellular network companies.
- wkat4242 2y ago
  True but terrestrial networks are offering generic service directly to consumers. Apple's deal with globalstar is fully part of apple's offer. I don't think they even mention globalstar. It's also a USP for Apple in the mobile market right now.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > terrestrial networks are offering generic service directly to consumers. Apple's deal with globalstar is fully part of apple's offer Globalstar is entirely abstracted away from the consumer. In that manner, it’s similar to TSMC. (Though far less critical.)
CharlesW 2y ago
> What surprises me more is that apple is even working with starlink considering they have a competing service together with globalstar. Generally, Apple abhors single-supplier relationships. Having multiple suppliers reduces risk, improves their negotiation leverage, etc.
pxeboot 2y ago
> Which is kinda their moat since all attempts on the Android side have failed The latest Pixels have Satellite SOS [1]. [1] https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/15254448?hl=en https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/15254448?hl=en
- wkat4242 2y ago
  Oh I see, I missed that, probably didn't make the news here as it's only in the US (so far at least). Sorry. Of course Apple's feature started out US-only too so I hope Google will expand their reach too.
cyberax 2y ago
SpaceX will enable regular 4G and 5G, that should be accessible to any reasonable phone.
- 1oooqooq 2y ago
  promisses...
  - cyberax 2y ago
    It already works. The phones that are being tested with T-Mobile don't have any special hardware for satellite links. As far as I'm aware, the only changes are in software, so that the phone doesn't try to switch to satellite "towers" unless it really has no other option.
golergka 2y ago
Is Globalstar's network anywhere near Starlink in terms of bandwidth?
- wkat4242 2y ago
  No, but the Starlink direct to cell service is also nowhere near regular Starlink. At least until they get a lot more sats up with this capability.
Shank 2y ago
> What surprises me more is that apple is even working with starlink considering they have a competing service together with globalstar Apple hates being dependent on one company. They always use competing suppliers in their chain because it gives them more leverage. SpaceX vs Globalstar is a good strategy if one or the other has a problem or wants to negotiate something crazy. In the past they’ve even sourced iPhone processors from both TSMC and Samsung (albeit mixed results).
- teruakohatu 2y ago
  I am pretty sure Apple could buy Globalstar without even noticing the cash, and Globalstar might be dead if it wasn’t for Apple (Apple owns 20% of Globalstar). I don’t think Apple needs the financial leverage, I think they don’t want to put all their bets on a lame horse.
  - karlgkk 2y ago
    Globalstar fulfills the most crucial product requirement: emergency contact Starlink - by design - is not going to have as good coverage (at least, at a mass market consumer price). And that’s okay It’ll be interesting to see if Apple rolls out data via Starlink
    - reaperducer 2y ago
      Globalstar fulfills the most crucial product requirement: emergency contact I think people who don't go outside much underestimate how much this is used. Almost every week a hiker or tourist or someone is rescued in the wilds of California or Idaho or Nevada thanks to an iPhone SOS signal. You don't see it in the news much because it happens so often that it's not really news anymore. A friend recently joked that Apple is starving the coyotes of a regular food source.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > Apple could buy Globalstar without even noticing the cash They’d certainly notice the management headache.
GeekyBear 2y ago
> What surprises me more is that apple is even working with starlink Starlink is expected to offer greater bandwidth in the future, but Globalstar allowed Apple to start offering emergency SOS service with 2022 devices.
- 1oooqooq 2y ago
  i get instant alerts from starlink if i even smell anything that they think looks like torrent. so many false positives with wireguard and almost as useful of customer support as google.
karlgkk 2y ago
Globalstar has substantially better coverage, but their constellation is in a much higher orbit. Starlink will be useful for actual internet access and lower cost emergency response messaging cost, but GS is going to be an important backup.
lxgr 2y ago
I've always assumed that there would be at least some modifications required on the phone firmware side. 5G (at least the non-NTN ,non-IoT variants) is just too chatty to support cell sizes that big, is my suspicion. If you can get the phones to go into a special "texting only" mode (whether that's over IP using IMS, which also seems somewhat chatty, or something lower level and more efficient), that would probably help a lot, and I assume this is what Apple is doing in this firmware update.
- wkat4242 2y ago
  Yeah I always wondered about that too. How do you stop it from sending too much and cluttering the entire area (media access control is another issue because the satellite will 'see' a much wider area than the phone). I imagine though that Starlink DTC will only be visible to phones in really remote areas, as it uses the same frequenties as terrestrial network it will be easily overwhelmed by traffic from nearby towers.
  - lxgr 2y ago
    I'd expect them to use at least some amount of exclusive spectrum for this service, or there would be issues in fringe areas in at least the uplink (the satellite couldn't selectively tune out phones talking to terrestrial towers if they are using the same frequencies that phone-to-satellite comms are using).

imoverclocked 2y ago

> What surprises me more is that apple is even working with starlink considering they have a competing service together with globalstar Apple also works with competing terrestrial cellular network companies.

wkat4242 2y ago
True but terrestrial networks are offering generic service directly to consumers. Apple's deal with globalstar is fully part of apple's offer. I don't think they even mention globalstar. It's also a USP for Apple in the mobile market right now.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > terrestrial networks are offering generic service directly to consumers. Apple's deal with globalstar is fully part of apple's offer Globalstar is entirely abstracted away from the consumer. In that manner, it’s similar to TSMC. (Though far less critical.)

CharlesW 2y ago

> What surprises me more is that apple is even working with starlink considering they have a competing service together with globalstar. Generally, Apple abhors single-supplier relationships. Having multiple suppliers reduces risk, improves their negotiation leverage, etc.

pxeboot 2y ago

> Which is kinda their moat since all attempts on the Android side have failed The latest Pixels have Satellite SOS [1]. [1] https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/15254448?hl=en https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/15254448?hl=en

wkat4242 2y ago
Oh I see, I missed that, probably didn't make the news here as it's only in the US (so far at least). Sorry. Of course Apple's feature started out US-only too so I hope Google will expand their reach too.

cyberax 2y ago

SpaceX will enable regular 4G and 5G, that should be accessible to any reasonable phone.

1oooqooq 2y ago
promisses...
- cyberax 2y ago
  It already works. The phones that are being tested with T-Mobile don't have any special hardware for satellite links. As far as I'm aware, the only changes are in software, so that the phone doesn't try to switch to satellite "towers" unless it really has no other option.

golergka 2y ago

Is Globalstar's network anywhere near Starlink in terms of bandwidth?

wkat4242 2y ago
No, but the Starlink direct to cell service is also nowhere near regular Starlink. At least until they get a lot more sats up with this capability.

Shank 2y ago

> What surprises me more is that apple is even working with starlink considering they have a competing service together with globalstar Apple hates being dependent on one company. They always use competing suppliers in their chain because it gives them more leverage. SpaceX vs Globalstar is a good strategy if one or the other has a problem or wants to negotiate something crazy. In the past they’ve even sourced iPhone processors from both TSMC and Samsung (albeit mixed results).

teruakohatu 2y ago
I am pretty sure Apple could buy Globalstar without even noticing the cash, and Globalstar might be dead if it wasn’t for Apple (Apple owns 20% of Globalstar). I don’t think Apple needs the financial leverage, I think they don’t want to put all their bets on a lame horse.
- karlgkk 2y ago
  Globalstar fulfills the most crucial product requirement: emergency contact Starlink - by design - is not going to have as good coverage (at least, at a mass market consumer price). And that’s okay It’ll be interesting to see if Apple rolls out data via Starlink
  - reaperducer 2y ago
    Globalstar fulfills the most crucial product requirement: emergency contact I think people who don't go outside much underestimate how much this is used. Almost every week a hiker or tourist or someone is rescued in the wilds of California or Idaho or Nevada thanks to an iPhone SOS signal. You don't see it in the news much because it happens so often that it's not really news anymore. A friend recently joked that Apple is starving the coyotes of a regular food source.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > Apple could buy Globalstar without even noticing the cash They’d certainly notice the management headache.

GeekyBear 2y ago

> What surprises me more is that apple is even working with starlink Starlink is expected to offer greater bandwidth in the future, but Globalstar allowed Apple to start offering emergency SOS service with 2022 devices.

1oooqooq 2y ago
i get instant alerts from starlink if i even smell anything that they think looks like torrent. so many false positives with wireguard and almost as useful of customer support as google.

karlgkk 2y ago

Globalstar has substantially better coverage, but their constellation is in a much higher orbit. Starlink will be useful for actual internet access and lower cost emergency response messaging cost, but GS is going to be an important backup.

lxgr 2y ago

I've always assumed that there would be at least some modifications required on the phone firmware side. 5G (at least the non-NTN ,non-IoT variants) is just too chatty to support cell sizes that big, is my suspicion. If you can get the phones to go into a special "texting only" mode (whether that's over IP using IMS, which also seems somewhat chatty, or something lower level and more efficient), that would probably help a lot, and I assume this is what Apple is doing in this firmware update.

wkat4242 2y ago
Yeah I always wondered about that too. How do you stop it from sending too much and cluttering the entire area (media access control is another issue because the satellite will 'see' a much wider area than the phone). I imagine though that Starlink DTC will only be visible to phones in really remote areas, as it uses the same frequenties as terrestrial network it will be easily overwhelmed by traffic from nearby towers.
- lxgr 2y ago
  I'd expect them to use at least some amount of exclusive spectrum for this service, or there would be issues in fringe areas in at least the uplink (the satellite couldn't selectively tune out phones talking to terrestrial towers if they are using the same frequencies that phone-to-satellite comms are using).