3 ms·

I love the Civ games but it always blows my mind how heavy a turn-based game can be on system resources.

SteveNuts 2y ago
I actually agree, I know the simulations are complex, and I'm sure there's _way_ more to it than I think. But I have an extremely high end CPU and taking turns in the late game takes way longer than I would expect. There's only so many possible actions I can take during my turn, is there no way to pre-compute the resulting changes to game state during my turn in the background?
- z3c0 2y ago
  I think your answer is found more in the AI. Any gains from pruning unlikely/impossible scenarios are usually spent on greater search depth*, and late game scenarios tend to have 1) more units in play and 2) higher stakes on a single move. Pre-computing during your turn would actually result in more compute, because the optimal choice for the AI after Unit A moves may change drastically once you've moved Unit B. [*]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha-beta_pruning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha-beta_pruning.
- legitster 2y ago
  > But I have an extremely high end CPU and taking turns in the late game takes way longer than I would expect. If you disable the animations it actually goes pretty quick. I can even play Civ 6 on my old Thinkpad. It's not actually as calculation taxing as games like Cities Skylines which actually run a simulation - the CPU draw is mostly just feeding the insane number of things that have to be rendered by the GPU.
z3c0 2y ago
Just curious, why do you find it surprising? Turn-based games tend to have hefty simulations fueling environmental factors, as well as expansive decision trees for AI to search through. Even the prettiest shooters are (comparatively) linear in play style, with AI that doesn't do much more than try to flank you.
legitster 2y ago
It's a result of making the game match the MSRP. To justify charging $140(!) for what's still essentially a PC port of a board game, they have to embellish the hell out of the game with textures/animations/voice acting, etc.

I actually agree, I know the simulations are complex, and I'm sure there's _way_ more to it than I think. But I have an extremely high end CPU and taking turns in the late game takes way longer than I would expect. There's only so many possible actions I can take during my turn, is there no way to pre-compute the resulting changes to game state during my turn in the background?

z3c0 2y ago
I think your answer is found more in the AI. Any gains from pruning unlikely/impossible scenarios are usually spent on greater search depth*, and late game scenarios tend to have 1) more units in play and 2) higher stakes on a single move. Pre-computing during your turn would actually result in more compute, because the optimal choice for the AI after Unit A moves may change drastically once you've moved Unit B. [*]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha-beta_pruning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha-beta_pruning.
legitster 2y ago
> But I have an extremely high end CPU and taking turns in the late game takes way longer than I would expect. If you disable the animations it actually goes pretty quick. I can even play Civ 6 on my old Thinkpad. It's not actually as calculation taxing as games like Cities Skylines which actually run a simulation - the CPU draw is mostly just feeding the insane number of things that have to be rendered by the GPU.

z3c0 2y ago

Just curious, why do you find it surprising? Turn-based games tend to have hefty simulations fueling environmental factors, as well as expansive decision trees for AI to search through. Even the prettiest shooters are (comparatively) linear in play style, with AI that doesn't do much more than try to flank you.

legitster 2y ago

It's a result of making the game match the MSRP. To justify charging $140(!) for what's still essentially a PC port of a board game, they have to embellish the hell out of the game with textures/animations/voice acting, etc.