4 ms·

Let's be cynical and assume it's impossible to avoid students 'gaming' the system. What's the better game, the one that keeps students shunted in book-studies

by h34t 18y ago

Let's be cynical and assume it's impossible to avoid students 'gaming' the system. What's the better game, the one that keeps students shunted in book-studies for 10 years, or one that prods them to take an active role in the community, get involved in extra-curricular activities, entrepreneurial endeavors, etc.? (even if for the 'wrong reasons')

patio11 18y ago
I can find the societal value-add from 10 years of book studies pretty freaking easily. Can you identify the societal value-add from my rewrite of that girl's essay? Ethnic minorities at Japanese high schools graduate literate and capable of doing calculus. Ethnic minorities at American high schools are done a tremendous disservice. Oh, heck, let's strip that of the euphemism -- black and Hispanic students at American high schools are done a tremendous disservice. (Use of the passive voice should not imply that that disservice is wholly the fault of external actors.) Rather than acknowledging this painful fact, and seeking to improve it, we cover it by emphasizing "holistic evaluation" where we hold them to scandalously lower standards and then declare success because they are admitted into college. Where they wash out in scandalously high numbers. And schools protect those numbers with more diligence than the CIA protects its list of operatives because the public can't be allowed to know the strength of the preferences regime or the extent of the utter failure at education occurring in some schools. KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN. OK, I feel better now.
- h34t 18y ago
  Objective tests for math and science are a baseline requirement; I wasn't arguing otherwise. So we agree on the value of that. But I think we need to go further than only measuring people based on these academic standards. If you look at my original list of activities (which included the idea of overcoming a personal challenge), a lot of them are not as easily faked as with your rewrite. Moreover, references can be required. I took on a variety of extra roles in high school because I wanted to be well-rounded. I admit that part of my motivation was to improve my resume, but if that's what it took to get me out there, I'm glad for it, because I learned a lot and grew as a person. In the particular case you mention, I'd think that there was a societal value-add from your rewrite of that girl's essay if you got her into a school where she will do better than whoever would have taken her place, had you not been involved.

by h34t 18y ago

patio11 18y ago

I can find the societal value-add from 10 years of book studies pretty freaking easily. Can you identify the societal value-add from my rewrite of that girl's essay? Ethnic minorities at Japanese high schools graduate literate and capable of doing calculus. Ethnic minorities at American high schools are done a tremendous disservice. Oh, heck, let's strip that of the euphemism -- black and Hispanic students at American high schools are done a tremendous disservice. (Use of the passive voice should not imply that that disservice is wholly the fault of external actors.) Rather than acknowledging this painful fact, and seeking to improve it, we cover it by emphasizing "holistic evaluation" where we hold them to scandalously lower standards and then declare success because they are admitted into college. Where they wash out in scandalously high numbers. And schools protect those numbers with more diligence than the CIA protects its list of operatives because the public can't be allowed to know the strength of the preferences regime or the extent of the utter failure at education occurring in some schools. KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN. OK, I feel better now.

h34t 18y ago
Objective tests for math and science are a baseline requirement; I wasn't arguing otherwise. So we agree on the value of that. But I think we need to go further than only measuring people based on these academic standards. If you look at my original list of activities (which included the idea of overcoming a personal challenge), a lot of them are not as easily faked as with your rewrite. Moreover, references can be required. I took on a variety of extra roles in high school because I wanted to be well-rounded. I admit that part of my motivation was to improve my resume, but if that's what it took to get me out there, I'm glad for it, because I learned a lot and grew as a person. In the particular case you mention, I'd think that there was a societal value-add from your rewrite of that girl's essay if you got her into a school where she will do better than whoever would have taken her place, had you not been involved.