3 ms·

Anyone else concerned that Americans are embracing Chinese technology? A bit before Tiktok went down the app store showed that Chinese "Red," Tiktok type of ap

Anyone else concerned that Americans are embracing Chinese technology? A bit before Tiktok went down the app store showed that Chinese "Red," Tiktok type of app was at the top of the charts. Why wouldnt American users flock to American apps like Snapchat, YouTube, etc? Is it a bratty thing ... govt took away what I was using and so Im going to go all in and only use Chinese Tiktok competitors? Also, with Threads at the top of the iPhone app store constantly yet I dont know anyone who uses it .. makes me wonder is there a way to gain the top positions in the app store? Either paying for it and or gaming the system via massive army of bots?

bryanlarsen 2y ago
Conversely, why wouldn't we expect the rest of the world to abandon American technology? We have members of the current administration in Germany stumping for AfD, and all of the American tech giants are toeing the party line. For the rest of the world, the risk and dangers of American interference in their elections appears to be more present and explicit than the dangers of Chinese interference.
- lenerdenator 2y ago
  If that's their reasoning, then there's not much we can say to change their minds. After all, look at China's thriving, diverse political environment.
  - g8oz 2y ago
    The impression for better or worse is that the U.S interferes abroad far more than China, so they are a safer bet.
  - ohjimny 2y ago
    I find it hard to empathize with your views that American political life is healthy and democratic, and China is corrupt and stagnant. American imprisons 10 times as many of its citizens than PRC. Most of these people are imprisoned for ideological crimes ("Protestant norms say that you should not intoxicate yourself") or political crimes ("our system holds that no one is entitled to the necessities of human life").
    - lenerdenator 2y ago
      > I find it hard to empathize with your views that American political life is healthy and democratic Did I say that the US has a healthy and democratic political life? Of course the US has its problems. Just look at the government now. It's just not a constitutionally-defined single-party totalitarian state.
      - ohjimny 2y ago
        > It's just not a constitutionally-defined single-party totalitarian state. Why is this specific thing worse than a similar way of describing the US system?
        lenerdenator 2y ago
        Because the similar way of describing the US system is fundamentally untrue. There is no part of the US Constitution that specifies, by name, which party shall rule. Could that change? Sure. Especially with so many people apathetic to what happens in China.
Micrococonut 2y ago
People are very aware that American tech companies want to control and exploit them as much as possible so there's really no difference to them between a Chinese app and an American app. Big tech trying to use its political power to force users into their platforms is an assault on our freedoms. You call it a bratty thing but I call it the only way the people have left to protest the enshittification of their digital lives.
- lenerdenator 2y ago
  > People are very aware that American tech companies want to control and exploit them as much as possible so there's really no difference to them between a Chinese app and an American app I mean, if that is indeed their rationale, then our civics education really does suck.
  - brendoelfrendo 2y ago
    Or, perhaps they have made a reasoned determination that their own government does not represent their best interests, and are less concerned about the impact a foreign power thousands of miles away has on their lives.
    - lenerdenator 2y ago
      The ultimate goal for the foreign power is to impact people thousands of miles away.
      - spencerflem 2y ago
        less concerned not unconcerned. learn to read yourself before lecturing people about education
        lenerdenator 2y ago
        > less concerned not unconcerned Giving a totalitarian regime access to the device that more-or-less holds your entire life and acts as a perfect surveillance portal to your every move decidedly falls more on the unconcerned side of the scale. Unless, of course, they didn't make a particularly "reasoned" determination like you said. > learn to read yourself before lecturing people about education Let's keep the ad hominem to a bare minimum.
brendoelfrendo 2y ago
> Is it a bratty thing ... govt took away what I was using and so Im going to go all in and only use Chinese Tiktok competitors? I wouldn't call it "bratty," but that is certainly part of it. My impression of the situation is that yes, folks flocked to a Chinese app because they were a) angry at the US government and wanted to undermine the purpose of the TikTok ban; b) equally angry at US social media services that are seen as being to willing to acquiesce to the demands of the US government in general and the current administration in particular, and c) ultimately unconcerned about who has their data. I have a hypothesis about my point c, which is that TikTok's user population skews younger, and so we have a population of social media users who grew up with the understanding that their data and attention are packaged, sold, and analyzed by anyone and everyone; they're not concerned about the implications of giving data to China, and it strikes them as hypocritical for the US government to spend decades on data collection and only express concern when users decide to take that data outside the the US sphere of influence.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
tenebrisalietum 2y ago
I agree with you. I actually had a nice group chat with some family members about this particular thing recently. This stood out in particular which my niece posted: "The only thing China has ever done to me is sell me cheap stuff, which is great because the main way people get money who aren't rich are through jobs, and companies don't really want to A) have employees and B) pay them anything. Companies are controlling everything so everyone I know is poor and just going to get poorer. I don't know how China is supposed to be harming me through Tiktok. I don't know how China is going to use my data to hurt me. Honestly I don't know why people want data so badly when everyone's broke-why don't you already know that. The only chinese stuff I see on Tiktok are people cooking and burning incense. I would understand if I like worked for the government but I work at a fast food place so ... what are they gonna do? Get me fired from Mcdonalds? Lol you could have multiple felonies and still work at Mcdonalds. Now they're gonna take Tiktok away like they take everything else and it's stupid. The other stuff sucks-Facebook is for old people and dumb minion memes, I keep seeing dumb alpha male crap on YouTube, and Instagram doesn't show me anything new after scrolling on it for ten minutes. Why do like 3 companies have to control everything?" Lots of fallacies and issues with those statements. We had lots of conversation after that. But I think that shows the general mood among those who are sticking with Tiktok. A lot of the value is that it's simply not Meta.
- brendoelfrendo 2y ago
  I don't really see the fallacies and issues in what your niece said, sounds like she's got a good head on her shoulders.
- spencerflem 2y ago
  kinda agree with everything there tbh
- cmdtab 2y ago
  What wrong did she say?
65 2y ago
I think the whole Deepseek fiasco revealed a lot about where the American technology world is at, which is funneling huge sums of money into tech monopolies. If Chinese companies disrupt American monopolies, to me that's a good thing.
andrewla 2y ago
I mean, the company happens to be Chinese but I don't think that's why anyone is using it. The "little red book" app was a flash in the pan because it was hyped as a successor, but the download charts are ephemeral. The reason that TikTok is winning is because it is a superior app in pretty much every way to its competitors (reels or shorts). The UI is clean and simple for producers and consumers, the interactions are all well done, and most of all, the content is all there, with some cross-posted to the others but mostly for larger channels that can afford to invest in boosting their reach. You can bemoan its addictiveness or whatever, but don't pretend that it's a bad app that people use because they are desperate for Chinese propaganda. It's so much better that the US government is actively trying to kill it so that the domestic alternatives have a chance.

bryanlarsen 2y ago

Conversely, why wouldn't we expect the rest of the world to abandon American technology? We have members of the current administration in Germany stumping for AfD, and all of the American tech giants are toeing the party line. For the rest of the world, the risk and dangers of American interference in their elections appears to be more present and explicit than the dangers of Chinese interference.

lenerdenator 2y ago
If that's their reasoning, then there's not much we can say to change their minds. After all, look at China's thriving, diverse political environment.
- g8oz 2y ago
  The impression for better or worse is that the U.S interferes abroad far more than China, so they are a safer bet.
- ohjimny 2y ago
  I find it hard to empathize with your views that American political life is healthy and democratic, and China is corrupt and stagnant. American imprisons 10 times as many of its citizens than PRC. Most of these people are imprisoned for ideological crimes ("Protestant norms say that you should not intoxicate yourself") or political crimes ("our system holds that no one is entitled to the necessities of human life").
  - lenerdenator 2y ago
    > I find it hard to empathize with your views that American political life is healthy and democratic Did I say that the US has a healthy and democratic political life? Of course the US has its problems. Just look at the government now. It's just not a constitutionally-defined single-party totalitarian state.
    - ohjimny 2y ago
      > It's just not a constitutionally-defined single-party totalitarian state. Why is this specific thing worse than a similar way of describing the US system?
      - lenerdenator 2y ago
        Because the similar way of describing the US system is fundamentally untrue. There is no part of the US Constitution that specifies, by name, which party shall rule. Could that change? Sure. Especially with so many people apathetic to what happens in China.

Micrococonut 2y ago

People are very aware that American tech companies want to control and exploit them as much as possible so there's really no difference to them between a Chinese app and an American app. Big tech trying to use its political power to force users into their platforms is an assault on our freedoms. You call it a bratty thing but I call it the only way the people have left to protest the enshittification of their digital lives.

lenerdenator 2y ago
> People are very aware that American tech companies want to control and exploit them as much as possible so there's really no difference to them between a Chinese app and an American app I mean, if that is indeed their rationale, then our civics education really does suck.
- brendoelfrendo 2y ago
  Or, perhaps they have made a reasoned determination that their own government does not represent their best interests, and are less concerned about the impact a foreign power thousands of miles away has on their lives.
  - lenerdenator 2y ago
    The ultimate goal for the foreign power is to impact people thousands of miles away.
    - spencerflem 2y ago
      less concerned not unconcerned. learn to read yourself before lecturing people about education
      - lenerdenator 2y ago
        > less concerned not unconcerned Giving a totalitarian regime access to the device that more-or-less holds your entire life and acts as a perfect surveillance portal to your every move decidedly falls more on the unconcerned side of the scale. Unless, of course, they didn't make a particularly "reasoned" determination like you said. > learn to read yourself before lecturing people about education Let's keep the ad hominem to a bare minimum.

brendoelfrendo 2y ago

> Is it a bratty thing ... govt took away what I was using and so Im going to go all in and only use Chinese Tiktok competitors? I wouldn't call it "bratty," but that is certainly part of it. My impression of the situation is that yes, folks flocked to a Chinese app because they were a) angry at the US government and wanted to undermine the purpose of the TikTok ban; b) equally angry at US social media services that are seen as being to willing to acquiesce to the demands of the US government in general and the current administration in particular, and c) ultimately unconcerned about who has their data. I have a hypothesis about my point c, which is that TikTok's user population skews younger, and so we have a population of social media users who grew up with the understanding that their data and attention are packaged, sold, and analyzed by anyone and everyone; they're not concerned about the implications of giving data to China, and it strikes them as hypocritical for the US government to spend decades on data collection and only express concern when users decide to take that data outside the the US sphere of influence.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

tenebrisalietum 2y ago

I agree with you. I actually had a nice group chat with some family members about this particular thing recently. This stood out in particular which my niece posted: "The only thing China has ever done to me is sell me cheap stuff, which is great because the main way people get money who aren't rich are through jobs, and companies don't really want to A) have employees and B) pay them anything. Companies are controlling everything so everyone I know is poor and just going to get poorer. I don't know how China is supposed to be harming me through Tiktok. I don't know how China is going to use my data to hurt me. Honestly I don't know why people want data so badly when everyone's broke-why don't you already know that. The only chinese stuff I see on Tiktok are people cooking and burning incense. I would understand if I like worked for the government but I work at a fast food place so ... what are they gonna do? Get me fired from Mcdonalds? Lol you could have multiple felonies and still work at Mcdonalds. Now they're gonna take Tiktok away like they take everything else and it's stupid. The other stuff sucks-Facebook is for old people and dumb minion memes, I keep seeing dumb alpha male crap on YouTube, and Instagram doesn't show me anything new after scrolling on it for ten minutes. Why do like 3 companies have to control everything?" Lots of fallacies and issues with those statements. We had lots of conversation after that. But I think that shows the general mood among those who are sticking with Tiktok. A lot of the value is that it's simply not Meta.

brendoelfrendo 2y ago
I don't really see the fallacies and issues in what your niece said, sounds like she's got a good head on her shoulders.
spencerflem 2y ago
kinda agree with everything there tbh
cmdtab 2y ago
What wrong did she say?

65 2y ago

I think the whole Deepseek fiasco revealed a lot about where the American technology world is at, which is funneling huge sums of money into tech monopolies. If Chinese companies disrupt American monopolies, to me that's a good thing.

andrewla 2y ago

I mean, the company happens to be Chinese but I don't think that's why anyone is using it. The "little red book" app was a flash in the pan because it was hyped as a successor, but the download charts are ephemeral. The reason that TikTok is winning is because it is a superior app in pretty much every way to its competitors (reels or shorts). The UI is clean and simple for producers and consumers, the interactions are all well done, and most of all, the content is all there, with some cross-posted to the others but mostly for larger channels that can afford to invest in boosting their reach. You can bemoan its addictiveness or whatever, but don't pretend that it's a bad app that people use because they are desperate for Chinese propaganda. It's so much better that the US government is actively trying to kill it so that the domestic alternatives have a chance.