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I'll give a shit about AI energy usage when a huge swath of the population isn't needlessly forced to drive to work every day.

_heimdall 2y ago
And that's why we'll never solve any meaningful societal issues. If you can use less energy, or water, or plastic, or time, just do it. Who the hell cares what everyone else chooses to do?
- bongodongobob 2y ago
  I already am. I'm not concerned about a 0.001% increase of my footprint. There are bigger fish to fry. This is fear mongering.
  - Spivak 2y ago
    Yeah, the real point is that "AI uses a lot of energy: here's why you should be concerned" is just a post-hoc justification for someone who doesn't like AI and needs something to point to.
    - _heimdall 2y ago
      Agreed, that's not a useful argument when its posed that way. That is only one way of seeing it though. The question, in my opinion, isn't whether LLMs are a huge energy suck and we should be worked. My question is whether its really needed at all, regardless of how much energy it may or may not use relative to other things. People's needs really are pretty simple at the end of the day. Food, water, shelter, (the feeling of) safety, community. We just aren't good at defining enough and some people are very good at convincing us that we don't need to even consider that concept.
  - _heimdall 2y ago
    I don't think I was fear mongering here, not sure if that was referencing someone else. I also wasn't just talking about LLM energy use here. I agree most people's footprint from LLM use is extremely low relative to what else they do. There is likely lower hanging fruit, though you also must agree that doesn't mean we might as well use a little bit more just because its a small amount. Maybe cutting LLM use out of your equation is small, but do you really need it? I'd assume not, I'd also assume there are larger items you could cut if you really looked and it wouldn't hurt your day to day life at all. That said, I don't know you at all so I could very well be wrong on the specific case. I would stand behind the argument broadly though, most people could remove a lot of use from their lives and may even find themselves happier for it.

_heimdall 2y ago

And that's why we'll never solve any meaningful societal issues. If you can use less energy, or water, or plastic, or time, just do it. Who the hell cares what everyone else chooses to do?

bongodongobob 2y ago
I already am. I'm not concerned about a 0.001% increase of my footprint. There are bigger fish to fry. This is fear mongering.
- Spivak 2y ago
  Yeah, the real point is that "AI uses a lot of energy: here's why you should be concerned" is just a post-hoc justification for someone who doesn't like AI and needs something to point to.
  - _heimdall 2y ago
    Agreed, that's not a useful argument when its posed that way. That is only one way of seeing it though. The question, in my opinion, isn't whether LLMs are a huge energy suck and we should be worked. My question is whether its really needed at all, regardless of how much energy it may or may not use relative to other things. People's needs really are pretty simple at the end of the day. Food, water, shelter, (the feeling of) safety, community. We just aren't good at defining enough and some people are very good at convincing us that we don't need to even consider that concept.
- _heimdall 2y ago
  I don't think I was fear mongering here, not sure if that was referencing someone else. I also wasn't just talking about LLM energy use here. I agree most people's footprint from LLM use is extremely low relative to what else they do. There is likely lower hanging fruit, though you also must agree that doesn't mean we might as well use a little bit more just because its a small amount. Maybe cutting LLM use out of your equation is small, but do you really need it? I'd assume not, I'd also assume there are larger items you could cut if you really looked and it wouldn't hurt your day to day life at all. That said, I don't know you at all so I could very well be wrong on the specific case. I would stand behind the argument broadly though, most people could remove a lot of use from their lives and may even find themselves happier for it.