5 ms·

I didn’t say China bad, I said Westerners typically find the levels of oppression and censorship present in China to be of concern. I actually gave zero of my o

I didn’t say China bad, I said Westerners typically find the levels of oppression and censorship present in China to be of concern. I actually gave zero of my own judgement on China at all. If you really think the Good vs. Evil narrative is wrong, why would you immediately go towards unrelated generic issues the West has? A neutral party would be more likely to acknowledge the problems with both sides, not reflexively try to change the subject! Then again you didn’t claim to be a neutral party, did you?

lm28469 2y ago
Well yeah, both sides are fucked so I'll use the free tool and not the $200/month tool, it really isn't rocket science Even if deepseek is a chinese communist party evil trick what do they get ? My shitty code ? Big deal, at least I'm not down $200 a month, which is half of my rent
- lukan 2y ago
  If they would establish deepseek in their authorized version worldwide - it means they would establish their worldview worldwide. Students asking for help with homework will get the chinese approved version. Any housewife asking for recommendation who to vote and why, etc. But ... deepseek seems open source and the local version not restricted (as it likely was trained on ChatGPT in the first place). So I also refuse to refuse deepseek because it comes from china. I see it as more competition that hopefully will help with establishing good open source models in control of no single political organisation.
  - lm28469 2y ago
    > Students asking for help with homework will get the chinese approved version. Any housewife asking for recommendation who to vote and why, etc. Well too bad for them, using a pencil to cut bread sucks too, that's why we don't do it. Meanwhile it's converting my json to xml and pissing code so I don't have to piss it myself
    - lukan 2y ago
      Too bad for you, if the majority of them will vote someone not to your liking.
      - lm28469 2y ago
        That's why I'm investing in land and ammos instead of cryptos and nvidia stocks
        lukan 2y ago
        I can see the motive, but I rather invest in a world where I won't end up in a fortified home shooting hungry scavengers.
        lm28469 2y ago
        I'm investing in my local community, it's closer to chicken coop vs rabbit cages than chatgpt vs deepseek, and sadly the war isn't even 1000km away as we speak
        lukan 2y ago
        A bit closer for me, but how will the local community help, if the war is coming? I considered switzerland for this reason. (Also I like mountains)
        lm28469 2y ago
        > how will the local community help, if the war is coming? That's the only thing left. Switzerland won't help when the top 30%+ of every EU country flees there
      - freilanzer 2y ago
        > Too bad for you, if the majority of them will vote someone not to your liking. If the majority of people get their vote from a LLM, then it already doesn't matter which LLM it is.
  - cratermoon 2y ago
    > Students asking for help with homework will get the chinese approved version. Any housewife asking for recommendation who to vote and why, etc. How is this any worse than where the US is now, getting the Musk/Zuckerberg/Bezos/Trump approved answers, if any answer can be gotten at all, after the current occupant of the oval office has silenced all federal agencies.
    - redcobra762 2y ago
      Western trained models will tell you politically inconvenient things, and if they won’t, that info is otherwise freely available. Neither is the case for Chinese trained models.
      - cratermoon 2y ago
        > Western trained models will tell you politically inconvenient things, Pull the other leg. Do you know who David Mayer is? Hint: https://archive.ph/iI5xC https://archive.ph/iI5xC
        redcobra762 2y ago
        It's a random guy. He's also not censored by OpenAI models: > Who is David Mayer ![Quién es David Mayer de Rothschild, el millonario al que relacionan ...](https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.CCKTcyWe80YvrRbkkxY_AAHaK6&pid=Api https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.CCKTcyWe80YvrRbkkxY_AAHaK...) The name "David Mayer" is associated with several individuals across various fields: 1. *David Mayer de Rothschild*: Born in 1978, he is a British environmentalist, adventurer, and member of the Rothschild family. He is known for his environmental advocacy and expeditions, including the "Plastiki" project, where he sailed across the Pacific Ocean on a boat made from recycled plastic bottles to raise awareness about plastic pollution. ([en.wikipedia.org](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Mayer_de_Rothschild?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Mayer_de_Rothschild?utm_...)) 2. *David M. Mayer*: A professor of Management and Organizations at the University of Michigan, specializing in behavioral ethics. ([scholar.google.com](https://scholar.google.com/citations?hl=en&user=c2Zunb8AAAAJ&utm_source=chatgpt.com https://scholar.google.com/citations?hl=en&user=c2Zunb8AAAAJ...)) 3. *David R. Mayer*: An American politician born in 1967, he has served as the mayor of Gloucester Township, New Jersey, and was a member of the New Jersey General Assembly. ([en.wikipedia.org](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_R._Mayer?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_R._Mayer?utm_source=chat...)) 4. *David Delaney Mayer*: Born in 1992, he is an American documentary filmmaker and social entrepreneur, known for projects like the PBS series "Food Town" and co-founding DreamxAmerica, an initiative supporting immigrant entrepreneurs. ([en.wikipedia.org](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Delaney_Mayer?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Delaney_Mayer?utm_source...)) 5. *David Mayer (Historian)*: An American-British theatre historian (1928–2023), he was an emeritus professor at the University of Manchester, recognized for his work on 19th-century drama and the Victorian stage. ([en.wikipedia.org](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Mayer_%28historian%29?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Mayer_%28historian%29?ut...)) 6. *Akhmed Chatayev (Alias: David Mayer)*: A Chechen militant (1980–2017) who used the alias "David Mayer." This alias led to a case of mistaken identity affecting the historian David Mayer. ([en.wikipedia.org](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Mayer_%28historian%29?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Mayer_%28historian%29?ut...)) If you have a specific "David Mayer" in mind, please provide more context or details, and I can offer more targeted information.
raxxor 2y ago
The CEO did gave a statement about their motivation. Could be a lie, but he delivered and it is also vastly more sensible that what we often hear from other companies. Google and Meta are an exception for this space though. Also, because not only the weights, but also the data is open, any propaganda can be identified and corrected. This is not the case for other models and what we have seen from Gemini, there certainly are "adaptations". I don't think Google had ill intent here, but this would fit what some would classify as propaganda.
rat9988 2y ago
Stop making this about "westerners" and "chinese". We don't care. Your bubble isn't representative of "westerners".

lm28469 2y ago

Well yeah, both sides are fucked so I'll use the free tool and not the $200/month tool, it really isn't rocket science Even if deepseek is a chinese communist party evil trick what do they get ? My shitty code ? Big deal, at least I'm not down $200 a month, which is half of my rent

lukan 2y ago
If they would establish deepseek in their authorized version worldwide - it means they would establish their worldview worldwide. Students asking for help with homework will get the chinese approved version. Any housewife asking for recommendation who to vote and why, etc. But ... deepseek seems open source and the local version not restricted (as it likely was trained on ChatGPT in the first place). So I also refuse to refuse deepseek because it comes from china. I see it as more competition that hopefully will help with establishing good open source models in control of no single political organisation.
- lm28469 2y ago
  > Students asking for help with homework will get the chinese approved version. Any housewife asking for recommendation who to vote and why, etc. Well too bad for them, using a pencil to cut bread sucks too, that's why we don't do it. Meanwhile it's converting my json to xml and pissing code so I don't have to piss it myself
  - lukan 2y ago
    Too bad for you, if the majority of them will vote someone not to your liking.
    - lm28469 2y ago
      That's why I'm investing in land and ammos instead of cryptos and nvidia stocks
      - lukan 2y ago
        I can see the motive, but I rather invest in a world where I won't end up in a fortified home shooting hungry scavengers.
        lm28469 2y ago
        I'm investing in my local community, it's closer to chicken coop vs rabbit cages than chatgpt vs deepseek, and sadly the war isn't even 1000km away as we speak
        lukan 2y ago
        A bit closer for me, but how will the local community help, if the war is coming? I considered switzerland for this reason. (Also I like mountains)
        lm28469 2y ago
        > how will the local community help, if the war is coming? That's the only thing left. Switzerland won't help when the top 30%+ of every EU country flees there
    - freilanzer 2y ago
      > Too bad for you, if the majority of them will vote someone not to your liking. If the majority of people get their vote from a LLM, then it already doesn't matter which LLM it is.
- cratermoon 2y ago
  > Students asking for help with homework will get the chinese approved version. Any housewife asking for recommendation who to vote and why, etc. How is this any worse than where the US is now, getting the Musk/Zuckerberg/Bezos/Trump approved answers, if any answer can be gotten at all, after the current occupant of the oval office has silenced all federal agencies.
  - redcobra762 2y ago
    Western trained models will tell you politically inconvenient things, and if they won’t, that info is otherwise freely available. Neither is the case for Chinese trained models.
    - cratermoon 2y ago
      > Western trained models will tell you politically inconvenient things, Pull the other leg. Do you know who David Mayer is? Hint: https://archive.ph/iI5xC https://archive.ph/iI5xC
      - redcobra762 2y ago
        It's a random guy. He's also not censored by OpenAI models: > Who is David Mayer ![Quién es David Mayer de Rothschild, el millonario al que relacionan ...](https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.CCKTcyWe80YvrRbkkxY_AAHaK6&pid=Api https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.CCKTcyWe80YvrRbkkxY_AAHaK...) The name "David Mayer" is associated with several individuals across various fields: 1. *David Mayer de Rothschild*: Born in 1978, he is a British environmentalist, adventurer, and member of the Rothschild family. He is known for his environmental advocacy and expeditions, including the "Plastiki" project, where he sailed across the Pacific Ocean on a boat made from recycled plastic bottles to raise awareness about plastic pollution. ([en.wikipedia.org](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Mayer_de_Rothschild?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Mayer_de_Rothschild?utm_...)) 2. *David M. Mayer*: A professor of Management and Organizations at the University of Michigan, specializing in behavioral ethics. ([scholar.google.com](https://scholar.google.com/citations?hl=en&user=c2Zunb8AAAAJ&utm_source=chatgpt.com https://scholar.google.com/citations?hl=en&user=c2Zunb8AAAAJ...)) 3. *David R. Mayer*: An American politician born in 1967, he has served as the mayor of Gloucester Township, New Jersey, and was a member of the New Jersey General Assembly. ([en.wikipedia.org](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_R._Mayer?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_R._Mayer?utm_source=chat...)) 4. *David Delaney Mayer*: Born in 1992, he is an American documentary filmmaker and social entrepreneur, known for projects like the PBS series "Food Town" and co-founding DreamxAmerica, an initiative supporting immigrant entrepreneurs. ([en.wikipedia.org](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Delaney_Mayer?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Delaney_Mayer?utm_source...)) 5. *David Mayer (Historian)*: An American-British theatre historian (1928–2023), he was an emeritus professor at the University of Manchester, recognized for his work on 19th-century drama and the Victorian stage. ([en.wikipedia.org](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Mayer_%28historian%29?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Mayer_%28historian%29?ut...)) 6. *Akhmed Chatayev (Alias: David Mayer)*: A Chechen militant (1980–2017) who used the alias "David Mayer." This alias led to a case of mistaken identity affecting the historian David Mayer. ([en.wikipedia.org](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Mayer_%28historian%29?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Mayer_%28historian%29?ut...)) If you have a specific "David Mayer" in mind, please provide more context or details, and I can offer more targeted information.

raxxor 2y ago

The CEO did gave a statement about their motivation. Could be a lie, but he delivered and it is also vastly more sensible that what we often hear from other companies. Google and Meta are an exception for this space though. Also, because not only the weights, but also the data is open, any propaganda can be identified and corrected. This is not the case for other models and what we have seen from Gemini, there certainly are "adaptations". I don't think Google had ill intent here, but this would fit what some would classify as propaganda.

rat9988 2y ago

Stop making this about "westerners" and "chinese". We don't care. Your bubble isn't representative of "westerners".