5 ms·

That’s fine, it’s just not what Westerners generally say, in my experience. Not that distaste for Chinese authoritarianism is inherently pro Western, just that

That’s fine, it’s just not what Westerners generally say, in my experience. Not that distaste for Chinese authoritarianism is inherently pro Western, just that Westerners I know tend to have an ideological issue with the substantially higher levels of censorship and oppression that takes place in China. It’s surprising to find people who genuinely don’t care about any of that, is all.

lm28469 2y ago
"westerners" as if it was a monolithic block. I envy the simplicity of seeing life in such terms, China bad, US good, it must be very relaxing You don't have any concerns with the US government, the nepotism, the corruption, the conflict of interests, the insider trading, the massive concentration of wealth and power in tech, the insane lobbyism, PRISM, &c. It's surprising to find people who can so clearly see how China is bad but are completely oblivious to their own problems. It's not a football game, you don't have to chose a side and be a boot licker for eternity
- redcobra762 2y ago
  I didn’t say China bad, I said Westerners typically find the levels of oppression and censorship present in China to be of concern. I actually gave zero of my own judgement on China at all. If you really think the Good vs. Evil narrative is wrong, why would you immediately go towards unrelated generic issues the West has? A neutral party would be more likely to acknowledge the problems with both sides, not reflexively try to change the subject! Then again you didn’t claim to be a neutral party, did you?
  - lm28469 2y ago
    Well yeah, both sides are fucked so I'll use the free tool and not the $200/month tool, it really isn't rocket science Even if deepseek is a chinese communist party evil trick what do they get ? My shitty code ? Big deal, at least I'm not down $200 a month, which is half of my rent
    - lukan 2y ago
      If they would establish deepseek in their authorized version worldwide - it means they would establish their worldview worldwide. Students asking for help with homework will get the chinese approved version. Any housewife asking for recommendation who to vote and why, etc. But ... deepseek seems open source and the local version not restricted (as it likely was trained on ChatGPT in the first place). So I also refuse to refuse deepseek because it comes from china. I see it as more competition that hopefully will help with establishing good open source models in control of no single political organisation.
      - lm28469 2y ago
        > Students asking for help with homework will get the chinese approved version. Any housewife asking for recommendation who to vote and why, etc. Well too bad for them, using a pencil to cut bread sucks too, that's why we don't do it. Meanwhile it's converting my json to xml and pissing code so I don't have to piss it myself
        lukan 2y ago
        Too bad for you, if the majority of them will vote someone not to your liking.
        lm28469 2y ago
        That's why I'm investing in land and ammos instead of cryptos and nvidia stocks
        lukan 2y ago
        I can see the motive, but I rather invest in a world where I won't end up in a fortified home shooting hungry scavengers.
        lm28469 2y ago
        I'm investing in my local community, it's closer to chicken coop vs rabbit cages than chatgpt vs deepseek, and sadly the war isn't even 1000km away as we speak
  - raxxor 2y ago
    The CEO did gave a statement about their motivation. Could be a lie, but he delivered and it is also vastly more sensible that what we often hear from other companies. Google and Meta are an exception for this space though. Also, because not only the weights, but also the data is open, any propaganda can be identified and corrected. This is not the case for other models and what we have seen from Gemini, there certainly are "adaptations". I don't think Google had ill intent here, but this would fit what some would classify as propaganda.
  - rat9988 2y ago
    Stop making this about "westerners" and "chinese". We don't care. Your bubble isn't representative of "westerners".
- mistrial9 2y ago
  this directly blends people with a government.. Western people is not equal to the USA govt. Here in California, three decades of China human rights history is very clear to a lot of people. In fact, many Chinese speaking people on the Americas west coast, left China for specific reasons, too. Utilitarian money-oriented self-servers definitely have less "care" about these things? EU or UK or wherever
gooosle 2y ago
It's funny you say that cause chatgpt, Gemini, etc have way more censorship built in than deepseek.
oefnak 2y ago
No, the US used to be allies, but that was before Trump.

lm28469 2y ago

"westerners" as if it was a monolithic block. I envy the simplicity of seeing life in such terms, China bad, US good, it must be very relaxing You don't have any concerns with the US government, the nepotism, the corruption, the conflict of interests, the insider trading, the massive concentration of wealth and power in tech, the insane lobbyism, PRISM, &c. It's surprising to find people who can so clearly see how China is bad but are completely oblivious to their own problems. It's not a football game, you don't have to chose a side and be a boot licker for eternity

redcobra762 2y ago
I didn’t say China bad, I said Westerners typically find the levels of oppression and censorship present in China to be of concern. I actually gave zero of my own judgement on China at all. If you really think the Good vs. Evil narrative is wrong, why would you immediately go towards unrelated generic issues the West has? A neutral party would be more likely to acknowledge the problems with both sides, not reflexively try to change the subject! Then again you didn’t claim to be a neutral party, did you?
- lm28469 2y ago
  Well yeah, both sides are fucked so I'll use the free tool and not the $200/month tool, it really isn't rocket science Even if deepseek is a chinese communist party evil trick what do they get ? My shitty code ? Big deal, at least I'm not down $200 a month, which is half of my rent
  - lukan 2y ago
    If they would establish deepseek in their authorized version worldwide - it means they would establish their worldview worldwide. Students asking for help with homework will get the chinese approved version. Any housewife asking for recommendation who to vote and why, etc. But ... deepseek seems open source and the local version not restricted (as it likely was trained on ChatGPT in the first place). So I also refuse to refuse deepseek because it comes from china. I see it as more competition that hopefully will help with establishing good open source models in control of no single political organisation.
    - lm28469 2y ago
      > Students asking for help with homework will get the chinese approved version. Any housewife asking for recommendation who to vote and why, etc. Well too bad for them, using a pencil to cut bread sucks too, that's why we don't do it. Meanwhile it's converting my json to xml and pissing code so I don't have to piss it myself
      - lukan 2y ago
        Too bad for you, if the majority of them will vote someone not to your liking.
        lm28469 2y ago
        That's why I'm investing in land and ammos instead of cryptos and nvidia stocks
        lukan 2y ago
        I can see the motive, but I rather invest in a world where I won't end up in a fortified home shooting hungry scavengers.
        lm28469 2y ago
        I'm investing in my local community, it's closer to chicken coop vs rabbit cages than chatgpt vs deepseek, and sadly the war isn't even 1000km away as we speak
- raxxor 2y ago
  The CEO did gave a statement about their motivation. Could be a lie, but he delivered and it is also vastly more sensible that what we often hear from other companies. Google and Meta are an exception for this space though. Also, because not only the weights, but also the data is open, any propaganda can be identified and corrected. This is not the case for other models and what we have seen from Gemini, there certainly are "adaptations". I don't think Google had ill intent here, but this would fit what some would classify as propaganda.
- rat9988 2y ago
  Stop making this about "westerners" and "chinese". We don't care. Your bubble isn't representative of "westerners".
mistrial9 2y ago
this directly blends people with a government.. Western people is not equal to the USA govt. Here in California, three decades of China human rights history is very clear to a lot of people. In fact, many Chinese speaking people on the Americas west coast, left China for specific reasons, too. Utilitarian money-oriented self-servers definitely have less "care" about these things? EU or UK or wherever

gooosle 2y ago

It's funny you say that cause chatgpt, Gemini, etc have way more censorship built in than deepseek.

oefnak 2y ago

No, the US used to be allies, but that was before Trump.