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The US companies got too greedy? How? They invented this entire space, literally. DeepSeek built their base models off Llama releases and OpenAI outputs (or so

The US companies got too greedy? How? They invented this entire space, literally. DeepSeek built their base models off Llama releases and OpenAI outputs (or so it’s thought), and while they added some optimizations on top, it seems like they’ve lied about the costs to produce their models by simply being vague about their base model and training data, and quoting the cost of their final training run. And then there’s all the dystopian propaganda baked into these models, which threatens to misinform users at scale based on a government driven agenda. Hard to be on that team, let alone firmly, knowing that it’s giving power to a dictatorial regime.

wkat4242 2y ago
The US models are also full of censorship. For example the US is much more sensitive to anything related to sexuality and here in Europe it's quite frustrating to deal with that censorship.
- infecto 2y ago
  I think we will find that each region will have their own flair of censorship. The only reason it stands out more from a Chinese perspective is the requirement to have alignment with PRC/CCP rhetoric.
  - wkat4242 2y ago
    Yes that's what I mean. I wish all models were uncensored and it would just be up to the implementer to decide how to finetune on top of that. Save for the super crazy stuff of course.
timeon 2y ago
> DeepSeek built their base models off Llama releases and OpenAI outputs Those models are also trained on data that was ignoring licenses / copyrighted content.
- ithkuil 2y ago
  That's a problem for sure. But why would that argument play in favour china which would be even less constrained by licenses / copyright ?
  - timeon 2y ago
    I didn't mean it as favour for China. Just that this industry is unfortunately like that.
raxxor 2y ago
That was perhaps a bit too general, but aside from meta and Google they didn't share their research and tried to sell AI products as fast as possible and tried to lobby legislation to keep their head start. I would also include nvidia here, that has some moat through software integrations. I haven't tested deepseek for censorship yet, but they shared their release and even their input data. And in this case you could correct its shortcomings, so propaganda would be difficult.
mvc 2y ago
> The US companies got too greedy? How? They invented this entire space, literally And when they thought they were the only game in town, they tried to corner the market in GPUs and lock out any users who can't pony up £200/mo. Reminds me of when the likes of Oracle and IBM had companies by the balls buying bigger and bigger servers and then Google came along and showed everyone how to do horizontal scaling of cheap hardware.
famouswaffles 2y ago
>DeepSeek built their base models off Llama releases and OpenAI outputs (or so it’s thought) The first one is definitely not true and the 2nd one is not necessarily true in the way you imagine i.e crawls of the internet will have gpt chat logs now.

wkat4242 2y ago

The US models are also full of censorship. For example the US is much more sensitive to anything related to sexuality and here in Europe it's quite frustrating to deal with that censorship.

infecto 2y ago
I think we will find that each region will have their own flair of censorship. The only reason it stands out more from a Chinese perspective is the requirement to have alignment with PRC/CCP rhetoric.
- wkat4242 2y ago
  Yes that's what I mean. I wish all models were uncensored and it would just be up to the implementer to decide how to finetune on top of that. Save for the super crazy stuff of course.

timeon 2y ago

> DeepSeek built their base models off Llama releases and OpenAI outputs Those models are also trained on data that was ignoring licenses / copyrighted content.

ithkuil 2y ago
That's a problem for sure. But why would that argument play in favour china which would be even less constrained by licenses / copyright ?
- timeon 2y ago
  I didn't mean it as favour for China. Just that this industry is unfortunately like that.

raxxor 2y ago

That was perhaps a bit too general, but aside from meta and Google they didn't share their research and tried to sell AI products as fast as possible and tried to lobby legislation to keep their head start. I would also include nvidia here, that has some moat through software integrations. I haven't tested deepseek for censorship yet, but they shared their release and even their input data. And in this case you could correct its shortcomings, so propaganda would be difficult.

mvc 2y ago

> The US companies got too greedy? How? They invented this entire space, literally And when they thought they were the only game in town, they tried to corner the market in GPUs and lock out any users who can't pony up £200/mo. Reminds me of when the likes of Oracle and IBM had companies by the balls buying bigger and bigger servers and then Google came along and showed everyone how to do horizontal scaling of cheap hardware.

famouswaffles 2y ago

>DeepSeek built their base models off Llama releases and OpenAI outputs (or so it’s thought) The first one is definitely not true and the 2nd one is not necessarily true in the way you imagine i.e crawls of the internet will have gpt chat logs now.