4 ms·

Maybe not all households, but some. And schools bear more than a passing resemblance to prisons.

by HPsquared 2y ago

bestouff 2y ago
Depends on the country.
- bigiain 2y ago
  Yeah. Most countries manage to keep automatic weapons out of prisons.
  - worik 2y ago
    ...and schools
    - bigiain 2y ago
      (that was the joke...)
eleveriven 2y ago
Yet it interesting how much of what we consider "human nature" is just us reacting to the cages we put ourselves in?
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > interesting how much of what we consider "human nature" is just us reacting to the cages we put ourselves in? Or that we aren't dogs. Chimpanzees do have an alpha male who commonly achieves his role through violence.
  - eleveriven 2y ago
    But their (Chimpanzees') social dynamics aren’t solely based on violence
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > their (Chimpanzees') social dynamics aren’t solely based on violence Correct. A book on Chimpanzees was connected to human nature by a reviewer in the Chicago Tribune, a 1999 Time article and the obviously totally-scientific pick-up book The Game [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_and_beta_male https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_and_beta_male
  - psychoslave 2y ago
    Humans can also exhibit behaviors closer to those of Bonobos. https://www.nature.com/articles/nature11128 https://www.nature.com/articles/nature11128
  - red-iron-pine 2y ago
    not solely through violence. alpha chimps are often big, but not necessarily the biggest. best way I've heard it explained: the alpha chimp usually does the most grooming of other chimps of any of the males in the troop. they're out there making deals and building relationships. tough guys can try to overpower those so the top chimp also gotta be tough enough to stand up, but it's as much about relationships as it is about muscles
ninalanyon 2y ago
> schools bear more than a passing resemblance to prisons. The qualifier some needs to be applied to that too. None of the schools I have any personal knowledge of in the UK or Norway bear (or bore in the case of my own childhood) the slightest resemblance to a prison. Well, there was one. I accompanied a colleague in the US when he picked up his daughter at the end of the school day, I was astonished to find that he had to present himself at a reception desk that was guarding locked doors that were the only way in and out.
- graemep 2y ago
  I think you are taking it too literally. It is not about having bars and armed guards, it is about having a strong fixed hierarchy, fixed routines, rules far stricter than society outside, punishments such as being put in isolation etc. A lot of this applies to some other highly disciplined environments such as the military too, but it is not the norm for most of us (and the military volunteer to be there). The physical and security aspects of a school in the UK are not like a prison, but the social and discipline aspects are. More so at some schools than others and I think people who have only had contact with better schools do not realise how bad the bad ones can be.
  - _yb2s 2y ago
    > I think people who have only had contact with better schools do not realise how bad the bad ones can be I grew up in a poor rural area and my wife an upper class coastal community, both in the USA. It’s amazing to compare and contrast our public school experiences. I was just trying to survive a situation that was both psychologically and physically abusive, with public humiliation rituals, solitary confinement, and gangs of bullies that cornered and robbed people and violently punished social non conformity- I still feel terror remembering it decades later. Even the lessons were nonsense propaganda- science classes literally focused on creationism, history class on “states rights,” etc. She was in a playful relaxing environment that included regular upper class leisure activities like sailing, skiing, and horseback riding, and had well equipped science labs with teachers that were passionate about science.
qrsjutsu 2y ago
[dead]
RobotToaster 2y ago
> And schools bear more than a passing resemblance to prisons. and some workplaces. Arguably many cities more resemble "captivity" than a natural environment.
b3lvedere 2y ago
Everywhere where you are unhappy and/or uncomfortable is a prison for yourself. It could be a football stadion where some weird guy has made you the mocking target.

Maybe not all households, but some. And schools bear more than a passing resemblance to prisons.

bestouff 2y ago

Depends on the country.

bigiain 2y ago
Yeah. Most countries manage to keep automatic weapons out of prisons.
- worik 2y ago
  ...and schools
  - bigiain 2y ago
    (that was the joke...)

eleveriven 2y ago

Yet it interesting how much of what we consider "human nature" is just us reacting to the cages we put ourselves in?

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> interesting how much of what we consider "human nature" is just us reacting to the cages we put ourselves in? Or that we aren't dogs. Chimpanzees do have an alpha male who commonly achieves his role through violence.
- eleveriven 2y ago
  But their (Chimpanzees') social dynamics aren’t solely based on violence
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > their (Chimpanzees') social dynamics aren’t solely based on violence Correct. A book on Chimpanzees was connected to human nature by a reviewer in the Chicago Tribune, a 1999 Time article and the obviously totally-scientific pick-up book The Game [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_and_beta_male https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_and_beta_male
- psychoslave 2y ago
  Humans can also exhibit behaviors closer to those of Bonobos. https://www.nature.com/articles/nature11128 https://www.nature.com/articles/nature11128
- red-iron-pine 2y ago
  not solely through violence. alpha chimps are often big, but not necessarily the biggest. best way I've heard it explained: the alpha chimp usually does the most grooming of other chimps of any of the males in the troop. they're out there making deals and building relationships. tough guys can try to overpower those so the top chimp also gotta be tough enough to stand up, but it's as much about relationships as it is about muscles

ninalanyon 2y ago

> schools bear more than a passing resemblance to prisons. The qualifier some needs to be applied to that too. None of the schools I have any personal knowledge of in the UK or Norway bear (or bore in the case of my own childhood) the slightest resemblance to a prison. Well, there was one. I accompanied a colleague in the US when he picked up his daughter at the end of the school day, I was astonished to find that he had to present himself at a reception desk that was guarding locked doors that were the only way in and out.

graemep 2y ago
I think you are taking it too literally. It is not about having bars and armed guards, it is about having a strong fixed hierarchy, fixed routines, rules far stricter than society outside, punishments such as being put in isolation etc. A lot of this applies to some other highly disciplined environments such as the military too, but it is not the norm for most of us (and the military volunteer to be there). The physical and security aspects of a school in the UK are not like a prison, but the social and discipline aspects are. More so at some schools than others and I think people who have only had contact with better schools do not realise how bad the bad ones can be.
- _yb2s 2y ago
  > I think people who have only had contact with better schools do not realise how bad the bad ones can be I grew up in a poor rural area and my wife an upper class coastal community, both in the USA. It’s amazing to compare and contrast our public school experiences. I was just trying to survive a situation that was both psychologically and physically abusive, with public humiliation rituals, solitary confinement, and gangs of bullies that cornered and robbed people and violently punished social non conformity- I still feel terror remembering it decades later. Even the lessons were nonsense propaganda- science classes literally focused on creationism, history class on “states rights,” etc. She was in a playful relaxing environment that included regular upper class leisure activities like sailing, skiing, and horseback riding, and had well equipped science labs with teachers that were passionate about science.

qrsjutsu 2y ago

[dead]

RobotToaster 2y ago

> And schools bear more than a passing resemblance to prisons. and some workplaces. Arguably many cities more resemble "captivity" than a natural environment.

b3lvedere 2y ago

Everywhere where you are unhappy and/or uncomfortable is a prison for yourself. It could be a football stadion where some weird guy has made you the mocking target.