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"Going above and beyond" at a big company, if done in a smart strategic way, is the best way to get promoted, and getting promoted results in significantly high

"Going above and beyond" at a big company, if done in a smart strategic way, is the best way to get promoted, and getting promoted results in significantly higher pay. I've gotten promoted twice at my current employer over the years, which has roughly doubled my total compensation, and none of that would have happened had I just did my previous level's responsibilities and nothing beyond.

bryanlarsen 2y ago
That's the exception rather than the rule. Most people have to switch employers to get a significant pay raise.
- edmundsauto 2y ago
  As with all things, it depends where you are. It’s not the case for big tech employers, who tend to have very clear “levels” and (from what I can tell on levels.fyi) it’s often a 25%+ jump in total comp. And these are the biggest employers of talent. It may not be most people in a startup forum, but it’s a lot of people. For all others, I think it’s because tech isn’t seen as such an important revenue driver. Lots of places we are still seen as a cost center.
  - delroth 2y ago
    > It’s not the case for big tech employers, who tend to have very clear “levels” and (from what I can tell on levels.fyi) it’s often a 25%+ jump in total comp. You're misinterpreting the data, because you can't see for data points on levels.fyi whether they obtained their reported salary by being promoted within the company or by doing the very common "side-promotion" of getting hired at a higher level at a competitor. I was young and naive and unwilling to play the company hopping game, I got promoted from L3 to L6 at Google, after a year and a half at L6 I was paid in base salary less than some of my colleagues who got recently hired at L5 and negotiated well, plus they got significantly higher stock grants as part of their signing bonus (like, around 2x what I was getting through standard yearly grant refreshes).
    - compiler-guy 2y ago
      I've always called that a "diagonal promotion" because it's over-and-up. It's also the only way I have ever gotten a significant increase in compensation, responsibility, and title.
      - scarface_74 2y ago
        Over the past 7 years, it wasn’t comp I was optimizing for over a certain amount it was increasing in scope and impact and autonomy when it came to managing projects and getting closer to the “business”. I realized that it would be my competitive advantage as everything else got commoditized and outsourced. I went from the second highest tech IC at a 100 person startup setting the direction of the overall architecture, to a mid level cloud consultant at BigTech (full time, direct hire), to a “staff” level at a smaller company (same responsibilities as a senior at BigTech). Funny enough, the company that acquired the startup pre-BigTech offered me a staff position responsible for strategy over all of their acquisitions 3 years later. My next play if I cared about comp, would be to go back to BigTech as a senior or a smaller company as a director/CTO.
    - vkou 2y ago
      Those L5s negotiated a good hiring wage, but would see stagnant growth until they hit the median of wages for level + performance rating in their location. Also since COVID, they've been very aggressively squishing the pay bands.
      - Rebelgecko 2y ago
        They also have the advantage of getting L5 pay immediately, while for someone who got promoted internally it can take 4-5 years for all the equity to catch up
    - somanyphotons 2y ago
      Managers who are handing our perf-review changes in comp are often very constrained when handling those who negotiated well. They'll typically get inflation level raises for a long time until they're lower in their band
  - Aqua_Geek 2y ago
    Anecdata, for sure, but my experience working at several big companies in tech is that they won’t significantly bump your pay (and especially not your stock grant!) when they promote you. If anything, they will move you to the minimum of the salary band for the new level. In my experience, you’re better off getting the promo and looking for the next job at your leisure. It sucks that that is what the system rewards, but I certainly don’t fault people for playing the game that is given.
    - 9rx 2y ago
      > that is what the system rewards Commensurate to the risk, of course. If you ignore the risk component then your best bet is to forget having a job and spend your days playing Powerball. The system offers much, much, much greater reward there. If you keep risk in mind then it's not so clear cut. Staying at the job you have, even with lower pay on paper, may end up being the most profitable option in the end. But sometimes you just have to make the gamble and find out! There are winning opportunities for sure.
      - johnnyanmac 2y ago
        Risk depends on the market strength. In good times, you could easily jump to a new job with a raise in weeks and there's little risk as long as you're not outing youself at work. In bad times like this, probably not worth it. The search takes months not, if not over a year, and there's a non-zero chance you're laid off anyway.
        9rx 2y ago
        Weeks can be a long time if it doesn't work out. And that is, by your own comment, in the good times. The good times don't last forever. Upon some dice roll it is going to turn, and when that one doesn't work out now you could be looking at months or years. Staying put isn't risk-free either. Not by any stretch. But is comparatively less risky. It is the devil you know, hence the lower risk premium.
  - HarHarVeryFunny 2y ago
    Pay bands for different levels are typically pretty broad, and typically overlap between levels. Just because median pay at level N+1 is significantly higher than at level N, doesn't mean that you will get that being promoted from level N.
- theoreticalmal 2y ago
  CydeWays post is very similar to my experience as well
- 627467 2y ago
  Most people who think they deserve a significant pay raise probably don't (or maybe not enough relative to others competing for limited promotional budget).
  - dingnuts 2y ago
    over the last ten years the tech industry has 10x'd the value it has created, which is obvious if you look at the accrued wealth of the leaders in the industry. you know what has NOT gone up 10x in the decade I've been working in this industry? MY SALARY we all deserve a significant pay raise you scab
    - CrimsonRain 2y ago
      Why don't you start your own company, make a lot of money and hire people with 10x salary? Who's stoping you? Show us how you pay 1M to each of your SWE.
      - westmeal 2y ago
        He cant start one because he doesn't have enough money lol
      - l0t0b0r0s 2y ago
        It doesnt have to be 10x. Working in "Mid Tech" should at least guarantee you a raise that beats inflation. Sadly, it seems the only way to guarantee a raise that is proportional to the companies increased productivity is to shop offers around.
        CrimsonRain 2y ago
        Either you're too bad (at best average; same thing I guess?) or the company management is shit. Either way you should not be in that company. So what's the problem?
        l0t0b0r0s 2y ago
- CydeWeys 2y ago
  It's not an exception at all. People get promoted all the time. Most people I work with have been promoted at least once since joining the company, some multiple times like I have.
  - __loam 2y ago
    Based on my anecdotal experience and the people I've known in industry, job hopping is way way way easier than getting a promo if you're trying to maximize salary. Mine has doubled after a few job hops.
    - 4m1rk 2y ago
      Even better is working for yourself.
      - scarface_74 2y ago
        Right because “working for yourself” is likely to lead you to the same profit as even the comp of a mid level employee at any of the BigTech companies.
        4m1rk 2y ago
        At least your performance has 100% impact, so it's all up to you rather than someone else.
        scarface_74 2y ago
        Can I exchange those good feelings for goods and services?
creer 2y ago
> if done in a smart strategic way, is the best way to get promoted This alludes to the other bit that's not taught enough: Working effectively, efficiently is not about how many problem reports you close, or lines of code you ship or number of hours at your desk. It's about recognition. Pay attention and work toward the stuff that will get you recognized. Pay attention and measure how much effort you put in the day to day stuff and the stuff that will be seen. This work is not "for your company", it's "for your career". Watch out also for what kind of recognition you get. If you become known as the expert in day to day operation of tool XYZ, you might be parked doing that for the rest of your life. Probably not what you intended.

bryanlarsen 2y ago

That's the exception rather than the rule. Most people have to switch employers to get a significant pay raise.

edmundsauto 2y ago
As with all things, it depends where you are. It’s not the case for big tech employers, who tend to have very clear “levels” and (from what I can tell on levels.fyi) it’s often a 25%+ jump in total comp. And these are the biggest employers of talent. It may not be most people in a startup forum, but it’s a lot of people. For all others, I think it’s because tech isn’t seen as such an important revenue driver. Lots of places we are still seen as a cost center.
- delroth 2y ago
  > It’s not the case for big tech employers, who tend to have very clear “levels” and (from what I can tell on levels.fyi) it’s often a 25%+ jump in total comp. You're misinterpreting the data, because you can't see for data points on levels.fyi whether they obtained their reported salary by being promoted within the company or by doing the very common "side-promotion" of getting hired at a higher level at a competitor. I was young and naive and unwilling to play the company hopping game, I got promoted from L3 to L6 at Google, after a year and a half at L6 I was paid in base salary less than some of my colleagues who got recently hired at L5 and negotiated well, plus they got significantly higher stock grants as part of their signing bonus (like, around 2x what I was getting through standard yearly grant refreshes).
  - compiler-guy 2y ago
    I've always called that a "diagonal promotion" because it's over-and-up. It's also the only way I have ever gotten a significant increase in compensation, responsibility, and title.
    - scarface_74 2y ago
      Over the past 7 years, it wasn’t comp I was optimizing for over a certain amount it was increasing in scope and impact and autonomy when it came to managing projects and getting closer to the “business”. I realized that it would be my competitive advantage as everything else got commoditized and outsourced. I went from the second highest tech IC at a 100 person startup setting the direction of the overall architecture, to a mid level cloud consultant at BigTech (full time, direct hire), to a “staff” level at a smaller company (same responsibilities as a senior at BigTech). Funny enough, the company that acquired the startup pre-BigTech offered me a staff position responsible for strategy over all of their acquisitions 3 years later. My next play if I cared about comp, would be to go back to BigTech as a senior or a smaller company as a director/CTO.
  - vkou 2y ago
    Those L5s negotiated a good hiring wage, but would see stagnant growth until they hit the median of wages for level + performance rating in their location. Also since COVID, they've been very aggressively squishing the pay bands.
    - Rebelgecko 2y ago
      They also have the advantage of getting L5 pay immediately, while for someone who got promoted internally it can take 4-5 years for all the equity to catch up
  - somanyphotons 2y ago
    Managers who are handing our perf-review changes in comp are often very constrained when handling those who negotiated well. They'll typically get inflation level raises for a long time until they're lower in their band
- Aqua_Geek 2y ago
  Anecdata, for sure, but my experience working at several big companies in tech is that they won’t significantly bump your pay (and especially not your stock grant!) when they promote you. If anything, they will move you to the minimum of the salary band for the new level. In my experience, you’re better off getting the promo and looking for the next job at your leisure. It sucks that that is what the system rewards, but I certainly don’t fault people for playing the game that is given.
  - 9rx 2y ago
    > that is what the system rewards Commensurate to the risk, of course. If you ignore the risk component then your best bet is to forget having a job and spend your days playing Powerball. The system offers much, much, much greater reward there. If you keep risk in mind then it's not so clear cut. Staying at the job you have, even with lower pay on paper, may end up being the most profitable option in the end. But sometimes you just have to make the gamble and find out! There are winning opportunities for sure.
    - johnnyanmac 2y ago
      Risk depends on the market strength. In good times, you could easily jump to a new job with a raise in weeks and there's little risk as long as you're not outing youself at work. In bad times like this, probably not worth it. The search takes months not, if not over a year, and there's a non-zero chance you're laid off anyway.
      - 9rx 2y ago
        Weeks can be a long time if it doesn't work out. And that is, by your own comment, in the good times. The good times don't last forever. Upon some dice roll it is going to turn, and when that one doesn't work out now you could be looking at months or years. Staying put isn't risk-free either. Not by any stretch. But is comparatively less risky. It is the devil you know, hence the lower risk premium.
- HarHarVeryFunny 2y ago
  Pay bands for different levels are typically pretty broad, and typically overlap between levels. Just because median pay at level N+1 is significantly higher than at level N, doesn't mean that you will get that being promoted from level N.
theoreticalmal 2y ago
CydeWays post is very similar to my experience as well
627467 2y ago
Most people who think they deserve a significant pay raise probably don't (or maybe not enough relative to others competing for limited promotional budget).
- dingnuts 2y ago
  over the last ten years the tech industry has 10x'd the value it has created, which is obvious if you look at the accrued wealth of the leaders in the industry. you know what has NOT gone up 10x in the decade I've been working in this industry? MY SALARY we all deserve a significant pay raise you scab
  - CrimsonRain 2y ago
    Why don't you start your own company, make a lot of money and hire people with 10x salary? Who's stoping you? Show us how you pay 1M to each of your SWE.
    - westmeal 2y ago
      He cant start one because he doesn't have enough money lol
    - l0t0b0r0s 2y ago
      It doesnt have to be 10x. Working in "Mid Tech" should at least guarantee you a raise that beats inflation. Sadly, it seems the only way to guarantee a raise that is proportional to the companies increased productivity is to shop offers around.
      - CrimsonRain 2y ago
        Either you're too bad (at best average; same thing I guess?) or the company management is shit. Either way you should not be in that company. So what's the problem?
        l0t0b0r0s 2y ago
CydeWeys 2y ago
It's not an exception at all. People get promoted all the time. Most people I work with have been promoted at least once since joining the company, some multiple times like I have.
- __loam 2y ago
  Based on my anecdotal experience and the people I've known in industry, job hopping is way way way easier than getting a promo if you're trying to maximize salary. Mine has doubled after a few job hops.
  - 4m1rk 2y ago
    Even better is working for yourself.
    - scarface_74 2y ago
      Right because “working for yourself” is likely to lead you to the same profit as even the comp of a mid level employee at any of the BigTech companies.
      - 4m1rk 2y ago
        At least your performance has 100% impact, so it's all up to you rather than someone else.
        scarface_74 2y ago
        Can I exchange those good feelings for goods and services?

creer 2y ago

> if done in a smart strategic way, is the best way to get promoted This alludes to the other bit that's not taught enough: Working effectively, efficiently is not about how many problem reports you close, or lines of code you ship or number of hours at your desk. It's about recognition. Pay attention and work toward the stuff that will get you recognized. Pay attention and measure how much effort you put in the day to day stuff and the stuff that will be seen. This work is not "for your company", it's "for your career". Watch out also for what kind of recognition you get. If you become known as the expert in day to day operation of tool XYZ, you might be parked doing that for the rest of your life. Probably not what you intended.