3 ms·

New Zealand welcomes digital nomads by loosening visitor visa rules

60 points by curiousObject 2y ago

Taniwha 2y ago
This is a piece of political posturing by the current government. People have been coming here and working on holiday for years, even though people are supposed to get a work permit if you come as a tourist and work remotely there's no practical to enforce it and no government has tried in the past. Making this change will have no practical effect on the economy.
- gnufied 2y ago
  It would affect people who were not allowed to work because their company was not sure if they are allowed to work in New Zealand. At individuals level sure, this is going to have little to no effect. But - lot of people need their employers permission to work in a different country and Employers have specific policies about where an Employee is allowed to work depending on Employee's status in that country.
- latchkey 2y ago
  I think the key point here is if you can stay longer than 90 days. At least when I was in Vietnam, doing a border run every 3 months would get old pretty quickly.
  - logifail 2y ago
    > if you can stay longer than 90 days There are places where there is a 90/180 day rule (a maximum of 90 days within any 180-day period) for instance in the EU's Schengen Area https://www.eeas.europa.eu/sites/default/files/visa_waiver_faqs_en.pdf https://www.eeas.europa.eu/sites/default/files/visa_waiver_f...
    - latchkey 2y ago
      I've always wanted a service that would help you plan out how to move around Europe most efficiently in order to maximize these rules.
- bee_rider 2y ago
  If it was de-facto allowed, but technically there were unenforced rules against it, this seems like a reduction in “political posturing.” Aligning the rules with what people want to do and are already doing anyway seems more like pragmatism.
  - crowcroft 2y ago
    Clarifying the law when the world changes and creates a legal grey area sounds like the exact thing a government should be doing.
- crowcroft 2y ago
  > People have been coming here and working on holiday for years, even though people are supposed to get a work permit if you come as a tourist and work remotely there's no practical to enforce it and no government has tried in the past. This in itself is a very good reason to actually enshrine reality into the law of the land. I don't disagree that the fanfare and PR around it is overblown, but hand waving and saying this is nothing is unfair. Clarifying the law is precisely what a government should be doing. > Making this change will have no practical effect on the economy. I don't know if this alone will change much, but I can guarantee the number of companies that don't let staff work remote for a few weeks in NZ because it's a legal grey area is not 0.
  - malux85 2y ago
    They didn’t say it was nothing they said it was nearly nothing “no practical effect” on the economy, which is true. One of the exciting and appealing parts about remote work is the enormous lifestyle increase you can get by living in a country where cost of living is low and the currency exchange is favourable. NZ cost of living is pretty high, and also housing is a problem, the government press release and posturing is acting like this is going to bring a swath of digital workers to accelerate the NZ economy (they actually said that was the primary reason for this). Which is just not true at all. In NZ on a 6 figure USD salary, you can get a nice apartment (single bedroom) in the city and live comfortably. In southeast Asian countries you could have a villa with a pool and a personal chef, cleaner, for less money. Same in most of Europe if you go to the right places (not the big cities). How do I know? I was a travelling nomad for 6 years and lived in 6 different countries. NZ is where I have settled now, but there’s NO WAY a tidal wave of digital nomads are coming here to revitalise our economy, like the ministers claimed.
    - hindsightbias 2y ago
      We are going to Vancouver NZ so hard.
      - malux85 2y ago
        I thought that too
- moralestapia 2y ago
  >even though people are supposed to get a work permit if you come as a tourist and work remotely This is a super weird "posture" of legislation some countries around the world have, I do not understand the rationale. If you make money elsewhere, by working elsewhere, never touching nor affecting the local job market, why would you have to get a work permit? If anything, it's good for countries to have people coming in whose only effect in the economy is spending their money, better yet, money brought from elsewhere, an immediate net gain to that country's wealth.
  - sahila 2y ago
    >If anything, it's good for countries to have people coming in whose only effect in the economy is spending their money, better yet, money brought from elsewhere, an immediate net gain to that country's wealth. This seems debatable, there is an influx of money to asset owning individuals at the expense of most other locals now having more competition for housing and services.
    - moralestapia 2y ago
      I do get the gentrification argument, but gentrification happens anyway since there's rich people everywhere. Gentrification is not a net negative, since most of the time that money goes to someone on the local community. That's also part of a broader issue, the issue of tourism, if an area is highly desired, prices will go up, this is natural. It's not related to people having a work permit or not, it's related to people willing to pay an extra for a particular product/service, it's a completely different thing. So, coming back to the work permit thing ... why? What is the difference between a guy on holiday that rents an AirBnB in Berlin for two months and spends 20k EUR there vs. a guy that writes code for a living for a US company and rents an AirBnB in Berlin for two months and spends 20k EUR there?
  - dylan604 2y ago
    I think this is one of those areas where "I'm not smart enough" because I have the exact same thoughts as you. Clearly, these rules were implemented by people "smarter than I" to the point that it seems nonsensical to us mere mortals.
slashdev 2y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
StackTopherFlow 2y ago
New Zealand citizenship is looking mighty appealing these days.
- plsbenice34 2y ago
  how so?
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
TENACIOUSANT 2y ago
LMAO. Aren't digital nomads attracted by cheap cost of living relative to their home country? I live in NZ and (almost) everything is expensive as fuck.
- InvertedRhodium 2y ago
  I live in Christchurch while working remotely for US companies and you’d be surprised how affordable it is here in those circumstances.
klipklop 2y ago
Pretty funny they waited for WFH to be eliminated at most of the large tech companies. Guessing that is not a coincidence.

60 points by curiousObject 2y ago

This is a piece of political posturing by the current government. People have been coming here and working on holiday for years, even though people are supposed to get a work permit if you come as a tourist and work remotely there's no practical to enforce it and no government has tried in the past. Making this change will have no practical effect on the economy.

gnufied 2y ago
It would affect people who were not allowed to work because their company was not sure if they are allowed to work in New Zealand. At individuals level sure, this is going to have little to no effect. But - lot of people need their employers permission to work in a different country and Employers have specific policies about where an Employee is allowed to work depending on Employee's status in that country.
latchkey 2y ago
I think the key point here is if you can stay longer than 90 days. At least when I was in Vietnam, doing a border run every 3 months would get old pretty quickly.
- logifail 2y ago
  > if you can stay longer than 90 days There are places where there is a 90/180 day rule (a maximum of 90 days within any 180-day period) for instance in the EU's Schengen Area https://www.eeas.europa.eu/sites/default/files/visa_waiver_faqs_en.pdf https://www.eeas.europa.eu/sites/default/files/visa_waiver_f...
  - latchkey 2y ago
    I've always wanted a service that would help you plan out how to move around Europe most efficiently in order to maximize these rules.
bee_rider 2y ago
If it was de-facto allowed, but technically there were unenforced rules against it, this seems like a reduction in “political posturing.” Aligning the rules with what people want to do and are already doing anyway seems more like pragmatism.
- crowcroft 2y ago
  Clarifying the law when the world changes and creates a legal grey area sounds like the exact thing a government should be doing.
crowcroft 2y ago
> People have been coming here and working on holiday for years, even though people are supposed to get a work permit if you come as a tourist and work remotely there's no practical to enforce it and no government has tried in the past. This in itself is a very good reason to actually enshrine reality into the law of the land. I don't disagree that the fanfare and PR around it is overblown, but hand waving and saying this is nothing is unfair. Clarifying the law is precisely what a government should be doing. > Making this change will have no practical effect on the economy. I don't know if this alone will change much, but I can guarantee the number of companies that don't let staff work remote for a few weeks in NZ because it's a legal grey area is not 0.
- malux85 2y ago
  They didn’t say it was nothing they said it was nearly nothing “no practical effect” on the economy, which is true. One of the exciting and appealing parts about remote work is the enormous lifestyle increase you can get by living in a country where cost of living is low and the currency exchange is favourable. NZ cost of living is pretty high, and also housing is a problem, the government press release and posturing is acting like this is going to bring a swath of digital workers to accelerate the NZ economy (they actually said that was the primary reason for this). Which is just not true at all. In NZ on a 6 figure USD salary, you can get a nice apartment (single bedroom) in the city and live comfortably. In southeast Asian countries you could have a villa with a pool and a personal chef, cleaner, for less money. Same in most of Europe if you go to the right places (not the big cities). How do I know? I was a travelling nomad for 6 years and lived in 6 different countries. NZ is where I have settled now, but there’s NO WAY a tidal wave of digital nomads are coming here to revitalise our economy, like the ministers claimed.
  - hindsightbias 2y ago
    We are going to Vancouver NZ so hard.
    - malux85 2y ago
      I thought that too
moralestapia 2y ago
>even though people are supposed to get a work permit if you come as a tourist and work remotely This is a super weird "posture" of legislation some countries around the world have, I do not understand the rationale. If you make money elsewhere, by working elsewhere, never touching nor affecting the local job market, why would you have to get a work permit? If anything, it's good for countries to have people coming in whose only effect in the economy is spending their money, better yet, money brought from elsewhere, an immediate net gain to that country's wealth.
- sahila 2y ago
  >If anything, it's good for countries to have people coming in whose only effect in the economy is spending their money, better yet, money brought from elsewhere, an immediate net gain to that country's wealth. This seems debatable, there is an influx of money to asset owning individuals at the expense of most other locals now having more competition for housing and services.
  - moralestapia 2y ago
    I do get the gentrification argument, but gentrification happens anyway since there's rich people everywhere. Gentrification is not a net negative, since most of the time that money goes to someone on the local community. That's also part of a broader issue, the issue of tourism, if an area is highly desired, prices will go up, this is natural. It's not related to people having a work permit or not, it's related to people willing to pay an extra for a particular product/service, it's a completely different thing. So, coming back to the work permit thing ... why? What is the difference between a guy on holiday that rents an AirBnB in Berlin for two months and spends 20k EUR there vs. a guy that writes code for a living for a US company and rents an AirBnB in Berlin for two months and spends 20k EUR there?
- dylan604 2y ago
  I think this is one of those areas where "I'm not smart enough" because I have the exact same thoughts as you. Clearly, these rules were implemented by people "smarter than I" to the point that it seems nonsensical to us mere mortals.

slashdev 2y ago

[flagged]

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

StackTopherFlow 2y ago

New Zealand citizenship is looking mighty appealing these days.

plsbenice34 2y ago
how so?

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

TENACIOUSANT 2y ago

LMAO. Aren't digital nomads attracted by cheap cost of living relative to their home country? I live in NZ and (almost) everything is expensive as fuck.

InvertedRhodium 2y ago
I live in Christchurch while working remotely for US companies and you’d be surprised how affordable it is here in those circumstances.

klipklop 2y ago

Pretty funny they waited for WFH to be eliminated at most of the large tech companies. Guessing that is not a coincidence.