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This was literally a quote by a nato secretary general https://www.nato.int/acad/conf/future95/rodman.htm https://www.nato.int/acad/conf/future95/rodman.htm >

This was literally a quote by a nato secretary general https://www.nato.int/acad/conf/future95/rodman.htm https://www.nato.int/acad/conf/future95/rodman.htm > Lord Ismay, the first Secretary General of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), reportedly observed that the purpose of the Alliance was to keep the Americans in Europe, the Russians out, and the Germans down.

suraci 2y ago
that hurts
hengheng 2y ago
Ah, the habit of reducing geopolitics to one-liners. Germany has, of course, benefitted massively from NATO both before and after reunification. Worth noting that the quote must have predated the EU and all its predecessors, as well as the Euro. At the same time, one of the main concerns of at least US foreign policy has been to keep a truce between Germany and Russia from happening, because that would be one of the few constellations that could upset the European power balance. And yes, that seems absurd, and no, I don't want this nor can I see it succeed in any way, but I also think it would definitely be an upset.
- ajsnigrutin 2y ago
  > At the same time, one of the main concerns of at least US foreign policy has been to keep a truce between Germany and Russia from happening, because that would be one of the few constellations that could upset the European power balance. Well yeah... german industry + russian raw materials and energy sources would mean a big problem to american industry... so yeah... to turn it back into a one liner, they managed to keep germany down and russia out. And now, more and more germans feel betrayed and are looking at an alternative (could be written in uppercase too).
  - hengheng 2y ago
    I said the European power balance, not the global one. You misunderstood again. I also wouldn't say that Germans feel betrayed. Quite the opposite, they instead think it's beneficial to betray their allies. Playing both sides, much like Hungary and Turkey.
- suraci 2y ago
  so... thank you, NATO?
The_Colonel 2y ago
That was his observation, i.e. his opinion and not the official policy, 70 years ago. I imagine it might have been part of the strategic thinking at that time, but that has apparently changed quite quickly. By the 1970s, Bundeswehr was the strongest western European army, West German economy living its golden years. (it's quite astonishing, but towards the end of the Cold War, West German economy was bigger than that of Soviet Union with 1/6th of the population)
- appointment 2y ago
  In my opinion statements like that are mostly a sop to the French and other formerly Nazi-occupied peoples, who were not happy that the de-Nazification process was largely abandoned after only a few years and most war-time German military and civilian officials were given blanket amnesties and used to rapidly rebuild the new West German state and military.
lupusreal 2y ago
It's a fact that West Germany was rearmed after WWII at about the same time denazification policies were revoked, maintained considerable military power through the Cold War, and effectively disarmed itself through its own political processes following Reunification.

suraci 2y ago

that hurts

hengheng 2y ago

Ah, the habit of reducing geopolitics to one-liners. Germany has, of course, benefitted massively from NATO both before and after reunification. Worth noting that the quote must have predated the EU and all its predecessors, as well as the Euro. At the same time, one of the main concerns of at least US foreign policy has been to keep a truce between Germany and Russia from happening, because that would be one of the few constellations that could upset the European power balance. And yes, that seems absurd, and no, I don't want this nor can I see it succeed in any way, but I also think it would definitely be an upset.

ajsnigrutin 2y ago
> At the same time, one of the main concerns of at least US foreign policy has been to keep a truce between Germany and Russia from happening, because that would be one of the few constellations that could upset the European power balance. Well yeah... german industry + russian raw materials and energy sources would mean a big problem to american industry... so yeah... to turn it back into a one liner, they managed to keep germany down and russia out. And now, more and more germans feel betrayed and are looking at an alternative (could be written in uppercase too).
- hengheng 2y ago
  I said the European power balance, not the global one. You misunderstood again. I also wouldn't say that Germans feel betrayed. Quite the opposite, they instead think it's beneficial to betray their allies. Playing both sides, much like Hungary and Turkey.
suraci 2y ago
so... thank you, NATO?

The_Colonel 2y ago

That was his observation, i.e. his opinion and not the official policy, 70 years ago. I imagine it might have been part of the strategic thinking at that time, but that has apparently changed quite quickly. By the 1970s, Bundeswehr was the strongest western European army, West German economy living its golden years. (it's quite astonishing, but towards the end of the Cold War, West German economy was bigger than that of Soviet Union with 1/6th of the population)

appointment 2y ago
In my opinion statements like that are mostly a sop to the French and other formerly Nazi-occupied peoples, who were not happy that the de-Nazification process was largely abandoned after only a few years and most war-time German military and civilian officials were given blanket amnesties and used to rapidly rebuild the new West German state and military.

lupusreal 2y ago

It's a fact that West Germany was rearmed after WWII at about the same time denazification policies were revoked, maintained considerable military power through the Cold War, and effectively disarmed itself through its own political processes following Reunification.