4 ms·

I think people will need to rethinking having their electricity grid relying on undersea cables. Like there are projects to make the UK dependent on solar energ

by cm2187 2y ago

I think people will need to rethinking having their electricity grid relying on undersea cables. Like there are projects to make the UK dependent on solar energy from Morocco, and northern europe on Scandinavian dams.

TrackerFF 2y ago
At least in Norway, the underwater electricity cables are extremely controversial - to the point that the sitting gov. might lose the upcoming election partly due to how they’ve handled it the past years. Skyrocketing electricity bills is something ordinary people feel.
- pjc50 2y ago
  Really? It's an export industry for Norway, selling electricity to other countries.
  - magicalhippo 2y ago
    One paid for by the inhabitants through higher electricity prices, so not exactly like other goods.
  - BrandoElFollito 2y ago
    I think Sweden had the intent, a few years back, to get to free electricity and export it. I did not know Norway was looking at exporting it too
    - pjc50 2y ago
      https://www.iea.org/countries/norway/electricity https://www.iea.org/countries/norway/electricity : 11% exported.
  - belorn 2y ago
    You can be an exporter of energy and at the same time be dependent on energy imports. Trade union deals can also dictate that rather than saving up and keeping capacity in hydroelectric dams, they must export energy, which then later create a shortage.
  - Symbiote 2y ago
    The increased demand (from abroad) causes local prices to increase. It looks like Norway has about 8.5GW of export capacity, vs about 13GW of production. Overall, exports significantly outweigh imports, but the times Norway is importing mean lower prices in Norway. The average price for Norwegians will have increased, but the variation in price will have reduced.
    - magicalhippo 2y ago
      Keep in mind it's not as straight forward as that. Almost all of our energy comes from hydro, and hence when "excess" is exported we might be reducing stored energy, causing higher prices later if we don't get expected rainfall. Particularly a couple of years ago we had record low levels of water in our storage lakes, causing very high prices for a long time. Had we not exported energy earlier prices would not have gotten so high. Of course, saving and then having massive rainfall means you could have exported but didn't so yeah. Just saying things are a bit different than say France which gets a lot from nuclear which has very different price dynamics.
  - eigenspace 2y ago
    It's very lucrative for the Norweigan energy producers, because it allows them them sell electricity at much higher prices on international markets, but voters hate it because they used to be in a small closed market with an abundance of electricity (low prices), but now they're in a large european market bidding for household electricity against Brits (directly) and Germans (indirectly), causing higher prices.
  - eptcyka 2y ago
    Bringing in money to those who sell and raising prices to those who buy.
  - TrackerFF 2y ago
    Norway is divided into 5 power zones/regions (south, east, west, mid, north). The northern zone is not completely detached from the rest, but the the transfer capacity is very poor, and thus lots of power that goes to the northern zones actually gets imported from Sweden. The northern zone has sort of been shielded from the export cable, and still pay rates which are close to the "old days". Now, when the gov. planned for these cables, a big selling point was that IF Norway was to need extra energy, these cables would make it easier to import from other countries. Wat has happened, though, is that the energy crisis in Europe has made it very profitable to sell our energy to them, and make Norwegian households/customers compete against the foreign buyers. So say in the west region, where people were used to pay on average 0.12 NOK / kWh one year, suddenly they faced bills with 2.6 NOK /kWh - or a 20x increase. Of course the gov. did implement programs to subsidize the bills ("strømstøtte"), but they were still high enough for people to feel it in their pocketbooks. Another factor which MAY have played a role in the increased demand, is that we've had lots of green projects which have been quite energy expensive, like making our oil rigs electric (rather than using gas to produce electricity). I'm honestly not too much in the loop on that though, but it is a popular populist argument you see all the time, often in combination with the export cables. But in either case, it has become such a hot potato, and the populist party/parties have embraced the anti-export cables stance.
tonyedgecombe 2y ago
I wonder if they could be buried under the sea floor, deep enough that they couldn’t be damaged accidentally.
- sorenjan 2y ago
  This cable was buried 1 meter under the sea floor to protect it against trawlers.
lukan 2y ago
I think people need to rethink destroying long term human survival with stupid wars. Coal is reliable. And the costs are not to be paid immediately. But in the long term we would far way better with projects like Desertec. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desertec https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desertec Because yes, their main disadvantage are instable human societies. Some terrorists longing for stonge age, are enough to destroy it. And sure, nuclear also works. But the more nuclear there is, the more targets you also have for the idiots.
sorenjan 2y ago
The Baltic countries will soon disconnect their electricity grids from Russia, this would probably be much harder without cables to Finland and Sweden. If we can get Russia to stop cutting cables it's still a good solution.

by cm2187 2y ago

TrackerFF 2y ago

At least in Norway, the underwater electricity cables are extremely controversial - to the point that the sitting gov. might lose the upcoming election partly due to how they’ve handled it the past years. Skyrocketing electricity bills is something ordinary people feel.

pjc50 2y ago
Really? It's an export industry for Norway, selling electricity to other countries.
- magicalhippo 2y ago
  One paid for by the inhabitants through higher electricity prices, so not exactly like other goods.
- BrandoElFollito 2y ago
  I think Sweden had the intent, a few years back, to get to free electricity and export it. I did not know Norway was looking at exporting it too
  - pjc50 2y ago
    https://www.iea.org/countries/norway/electricity https://www.iea.org/countries/norway/electricity : 11% exported.
- belorn 2y ago
  You can be an exporter of energy and at the same time be dependent on energy imports. Trade union deals can also dictate that rather than saving up and keeping capacity in hydroelectric dams, they must export energy, which then later create a shortage.
- Symbiote 2y ago
  The increased demand (from abroad) causes local prices to increase. It looks like Norway has about 8.5GW of export capacity, vs about 13GW of production. Overall, exports significantly outweigh imports, but the times Norway is importing mean lower prices in Norway. The average price for Norwegians will have increased, but the variation in price will have reduced.
  - magicalhippo 2y ago
    Keep in mind it's not as straight forward as that. Almost all of our energy comes from hydro, and hence when "excess" is exported we might be reducing stored energy, causing higher prices later if we don't get expected rainfall. Particularly a couple of years ago we had record low levels of water in our storage lakes, causing very high prices for a long time. Had we not exported energy earlier prices would not have gotten so high. Of course, saving and then having massive rainfall means you could have exported but didn't so yeah. Just saying things are a bit different than say France which gets a lot from nuclear which has very different price dynamics.
- eigenspace 2y ago
  It's very lucrative for the Norweigan energy producers, because it allows them them sell electricity at much higher prices on international markets, but voters hate it because they used to be in a small closed market with an abundance of electricity (low prices), but now they're in a large european market bidding for household electricity against Brits (directly) and Germans (indirectly), causing higher prices.
- eptcyka 2y ago
  Bringing in money to those who sell and raising prices to those who buy.
- TrackerFF 2y ago
  Norway is divided into 5 power zones/regions (south, east, west, mid, north). The northern zone is not completely detached from the rest, but the the transfer capacity is very poor, and thus lots of power that goes to the northern zones actually gets imported from Sweden. The northern zone has sort of been shielded from the export cable, and still pay rates which are close to the "old days". Now, when the gov. planned for these cables, a big selling point was that IF Norway was to need extra energy, these cables would make it easier to import from other countries. Wat has happened, though, is that the energy crisis in Europe has made it very profitable to sell our energy to them, and make Norwegian households/customers compete against the foreign buyers. So say in the west region, where people were used to pay on average 0.12 NOK / kWh one year, suddenly they faced bills with 2.6 NOK /kWh - or a 20x increase. Of course the gov. did implement programs to subsidize the bills ("strømstøtte"), but they were still high enough for people to feel it in their pocketbooks. Another factor which MAY have played a role in the increased demand, is that we've had lots of green projects which have been quite energy expensive, like making our oil rigs electric (rather than using gas to produce electricity). I'm honestly not too much in the loop on that though, but it is a popular populist argument you see all the time, often in combination with the export cables. But in either case, it has become such a hot potato, and the populist party/parties have embraced the anti-export cables stance.

tonyedgecombe 2y ago

I wonder if they could be buried under the sea floor, deep enough that they couldn’t be damaged accidentally.

sorenjan 2y ago
This cable was buried 1 meter under the sea floor to protect it against trawlers.

lukan 2y ago

I think people need to rethink destroying long term human survival with stupid wars. Coal is reliable. And the costs are not to be paid immediately. But in the long term we would far way better with projects like Desertec. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desertec https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desertec Because yes, their main disadvantage are instable human societies. Some terrorists longing for stonge age, are enough to destroy it. And sure, nuclear also works. But the more nuclear there is, the more targets you also have for the idiots.

sorenjan 2y ago

The Baltic countries will soon disconnect their electricity grids from Russia, this would probably be much harder without cables to Finland and Sweden. If we can get Russia to stop cutting cables it's still a good solution.