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> DeepSeek spends $6 million in old H800 hardware to develop open source model that overtakes ChatGPT. DeepSeek claims that's what they spent. They're under a
by esperent 2y ago
> DeepSeek spends $6 million in old H800 hardware to develop open source model that overtakes ChatGPT.
DeepSeek claims that's what they spent. They're under a trade embargo, and if they had access to any more than that it would have been obtained illegally.
They might be telling the truth, but let's wait until someone else replicates it before we fully accept it.
- belter 2y agoThey have a lot of H100: https://www.reddit.com/r/NVDA_Stock/comments/1iadc0s/evidence_that_h100_nvidia_gpus_are_in_china_dated/ https://www.reddit.com/r/NVDA_Stock/comments/1iadc0s/evidenc...
- msoad 2y agofour GPUs are very convincing indeed! :D
- belter 2y agoYou missed the black unwrapped boxes in the background....
- bayindirh 2y agoThat's 8 (not 4), on a NVIDIA platform board to start with. You can't buy them as "GPU"s and integrate them to your system. NVIDIA sells your the platform (GPUs + platform board which includes switches and all the support infra), and you integrate that behemoth of a board to your server, as a single unit. So that open server and the wrapped ones at the back are more telling than it looks.
- senko 2y agoThere are already some (limited) reproductions that suggest they're not completely lying (ie that there are indeed perf benefits).
- sekai 2y ago[flagged]
- nabla9 2y agoHuggingface is currently replicating it. Replications of small models indicate that they don't lie any significant amount. The architecture is cheap to train. Berkeley Researchers Replicate DeepSeek R1's Core Tech for Just $30: A Small Model RL Revolution https://xyzlabs.substack.com/p/berkeley-researchers-replicate-deepseek https://xyzlabs.substack.com/p/berkeley-researchers-replicat...
- benterix 2y agoWhoah, that's incredible! I remember a year ago I was hoping that in a decade from now it would be great to run GPT4-class models on my own hardware. The reality seems to be far more exciting.
- moritzwarhier 2y agoI first sneered at the idea of LLM generated LLM training sets, but is this what might be driving the big efficiency leap? Asking as someone who honestly only superficially followed the developments since the end of 2023 or so
- bufferoverflow 2y agoYou call R1 a small model? It's a 671-billion parameter model.
- elorant 2y agoThere are multiple variations of the model starting from 1.5B parameters.
- bufferoverflow 2y agoThose are distillations of the model.
- rsanek 2y agohave you used those? in my experience even the 70B distillation is far worse than what you can expect from o1 / the R1 available on the web
- maxglute 2y ago>been obtained illegally. PRC companies breaking US export control laws is legal (for PRC companies). Maybe they're trying to avoid US entity listing, lot's of PRC companies keep mum about growing capabilites to do so. But the mere fact Deepseek is publicizing means they're unlikely to care about the political heat that is coming and the ramifications. If anything, getting on US entity list probably locks in their employees with Deepseek on resume into PRC.
- esperent 2y ago> PRC companies breaking US export control laws is legal So long as they don't plan to do any business with the US or any of their allies I guess.
- sundaeofshock 2y agoThis may not be that much of a moat, as Trump seems committed to turning US current allies into former allies.
- maxglute 2y agoHard to think they plan to, PRC strategic companies that gets competitive gets entity listed anyway. And CEO seems mission driven for AGI - if US going to limit hardware inevitably then nothing to do but go gloves off, and try to dunk on competition. At this point US can take deep seek off appstores but what's the point except to look petty. Eitherway, more technical ppl have pointed out some of the R1 optimizations _only_ make sense if Deepseek was constrained to older hardware, i.e. engineer at PTX level to circumvent H800 limitations to perfrom more like H100s. Throwing this model out also gives US allies soverign AI a launchpad... reducing US dependency is step 1 to not being US allies.
- esperent 2y ago> Hard to think they plan to They already are. You can make a paid account and use their API from most countries around the world. This is what doing business looks like.
- 2y ago
- lmm 2y agoAll of the western AI companies trained on illegally obtained data, they barely even bother to deny it. This is an industry where lies are normalised. (Not to contradict your point about this specific number)
- pas 2y agoIt's legally a grey area. It might even be fair use. Facts themselves are not protected by copyright. If there's no unauthorized reproduction/copying then it's not a copyright issue. (Maybe it's a violation of terms of services of course.)
- hackingonempty 2y agoCopies are made in the formation of the training corpus and in the memory of the computers during training so there's definitely a copyright issue. Could be fair use though.
- icedchai 2y agoIs there also a copyright issue with search engines?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- hackingonempty 2y agoNo, the DMCA amended the law to give search engines (and automated caches and user generated content sites) safe harbor from infringement if they follow the takedown protocol.
- tivert 2y ago> Facts themselves are not protected by copyright. But don't LLMs encode language, not facts? > If there's no unauthorized reproduction/copying then it's not a copyright issue. I'm pretty sure copyright holders have gotten the models to regurgitate their copyright works verbatim, or nearly so.