5 ms·

Thank you, Ukraine

by suraci 2y ago

Thank you, Ukraine

throwaway123199 2y ago
[flagged]
- impossiblefork 2y ago
  Once Azerbaijan starts up their wars again though, all the pipelines are presumably going away, so even though the Ukrainians have obviously screwed you, it's far from certain they'll really gain that much.
- EB-Barrington 2y ago
  [dead]
- lupusreal 2y ago
  Germany really should have anticipated this sort of thing happening sooner or later, but German politicians chose instead to bury their heads in the sand by buying into the whole "end of history" narrative. Making their economy so dependent on buying energy from Russia is only one manifestation of this. Another has been allowing their military to atrophy, to the point where they can no longer pull their own weight in NATO to present a credible deterrence to Russian aggression. Germany is lucky to be friendly with so many other nations that aren't run by such foolish people; Poland, Sweden, etc. At the same time, Germany is now in an uncomfortable position with America because of Germany's own poor planning.
  - ajsnigrutin 2y ago
    Isn't that the whole point of nato? Keeping germany down and russia out? The last time someone messed with them so hard, they elected that austrian painter dude, who then killed hitler in the end... and now EU is wondering, why the germans are turning towards AfD.
    - lupusreal 2y ago
      No, the point of NATO was/is to keep the Soviets/Russians from trying to invade. Remilitarization of West Germany happened very quickly after the end of WWII and only after the fall of the Soviet Union and German Reunification did Germany seem to conclude that history was over and lost their vigilance.
      - ajsnigrutin 2y ago
        This was literally a quote by a nato secretary general https://www.nato.int/acad/conf/future95/rodman.htm https://www.nato.int/acad/conf/future95/rodman.htm > Lord Ismay, the first Secretary General of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), reportedly observed that the purpose of the Alliance was to keep the Americans in Europe, the Russians out, and the Germans down.
        suraci 2y ago
        that hurts
        hengheng 2y ago
        Ah, the habit of reducing geopolitics to one-liners. Germany has, of course, benefitted massively from NATO both before and after reunification. Worth noting that the quote must have predated the EU and all its predecessors, as well as the Euro. At the same time, one of the main concerns of at least US foreign policy has been to keep a truce between Germany and Russia from happening, because that would be one of the few constellations that could upset the European power balance. And yes, that seems absurd, and no, I don't want this nor can I see it succeed in any way, but I also think it would definitely be an upset.
        ajsnigrutin 2y ago
        > At the same time, one of the main concerns of at least US foreign policy has been to keep a truce between Germany and Russia from happening, because that would be one of the few constellations that could upset the European power balance. Well yeah... german industry + russian raw materials and energy sources would mean a big problem to american industry... so yeah... to turn it back into a one liner, they managed to keep germany down and russia out. And now, more and more germans feel betrayed and are looking at an alternative (could be written in uppercase too).

Thank you, Ukraine

by suraci 2y ago

Thank you, Ukraine

throwaway123199 2y ago

[flagged]

impossiblefork 2y ago
Once Azerbaijan starts up their wars again though, all the pipelines are presumably going away, so even though the Ukrainians have obviously screwed you, it's far from certain they'll really gain that much.
EB-Barrington 2y ago
[dead]
lupusreal 2y ago
Germany really should have anticipated this sort of thing happening sooner or later, but German politicians chose instead to bury their heads in the sand by buying into the whole "end of history" narrative. Making their economy so dependent on buying energy from Russia is only one manifestation of this. Another has been allowing their military to atrophy, to the point where they can no longer pull their own weight in NATO to present a credible deterrence to Russian aggression. Germany is lucky to be friendly with so many other nations that aren't run by such foolish people; Poland, Sweden, etc. At the same time, Germany is now in an uncomfortable position with America because of Germany's own poor planning.
- ajsnigrutin 2y ago
  Isn't that the whole point of nato? Keeping germany down and russia out? The last time someone messed with them so hard, they elected that austrian painter dude, who then killed hitler in the end... and now EU is wondering, why the germans are turning towards AfD.
  - lupusreal 2y ago
    No, the point of NATO was/is to keep the Soviets/Russians from trying to invade. Remilitarization of West Germany happened very quickly after the end of WWII and only after the fall of the Soviet Union and German Reunification did Germany seem to conclude that history was over and lost their vigilance.
    - ajsnigrutin 2y ago
      This was literally a quote by a nato secretary general https://www.nato.int/acad/conf/future95/rodman.htm https://www.nato.int/acad/conf/future95/rodman.htm > Lord Ismay, the first Secretary General of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), reportedly observed that the purpose of the Alliance was to keep the Americans in Europe, the Russians out, and the Germans down.
      - suraci 2y ago
        that hurts
      - hengheng 2y ago
        Ah, the habit of reducing geopolitics to one-liners. Germany has, of course, benefitted massively from NATO both before and after reunification. Worth noting that the quote must have predated the EU and all its predecessors, as well as the Euro. At the same time, one of the main concerns of at least US foreign policy has been to keep a truce between Germany and Russia from happening, because that would be one of the few constellations that could upset the European power balance. And yes, that seems absurd, and no, I don't want this nor can I see it succeed in any way, but I also think it would definitely be an upset.
        ajsnigrutin 2y ago
        > At the same time, one of the main concerns of at least US foreign policy has been to keep a truce between Germany and Russia from happening, because that would be one of the few constellations that could upset the European power balance. Well yeah... german industry + russian raw materials and energy sources would mean a big problem to american industry... so yeah... to turn it back into a one liner, they managed to keep germany down and russia out. And now, more and more germans feel betrayed and are looking at an alternative (could be written in uppercase too).