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>That could change I think what Trump has done to Colombia is not reproducible at scale and he won't use the same approach against China or India for wrong rea

>That could change I think what Trump has done to Colombia is not reproducible at scale and he won't use the same approach against China or India for wrong reason (war in Ukraine is an unworthy problem in "America first" mindset). Monroe doctrine may be still alive, but re-alignment is going to happen everywhere now and further sanctions will have less and less effect because of that most of all. I do think that the West has lost this war in 2023, when Biden and northwest of Europe were sleeping and ignoring the signs. This happened not least because the West does not actually care about Ukraine, it's pure moral standing with zero strategic interest. I mean, Poland may believe that Ukraine is a good buffer and Baltics may believe that Ukraine is a good distraction, but what makes them safe is that they do enjoy Article 5 protection and Russia will not test that for wrong reason.

tim333 2y ago
I just watched Anders Puck Nielsen latest and he thinks both sides think they are winning - Putin because he's taking territory and the Ukrainians because they think Russia's economy will collapse. Time will tell I guess https://youtu.be/lNZ56C-f4a8?t=362 https://youtu.be/lNZ56C-f4a8?t=362 re "the West does not actually care about Ukraine", I think they care about the principle that you should be able to go about your business without getting invaded more than about Ukraine specifically. It's like if someone gets mugged in your town - you may not care that much about the specific victim but you care about the principle that the muggers don't get away with it.
- ivan_gammel 2y ago
  Yeah, some part of Western political elites does care about it, sometimes dogmatically. However it is applied selectively and with plenty of excuses - a moral standing, but not a moral standard. And it has quite low priority compared to vital national interests or even internal politics.

tim333 2y ago

I just watched Anders Puck Nielsen latest and he thinks both sides think they are winning - Putin because he's taking territory and the Ukrainians because they think Russia's economy will collapse. Time will tell I guess https://youtu.be/lNZ56C-f4a8?t=362 https://youtu.be/lNZ56C-f4a8?t=362 re "the West does not actually care about Ukraine", I think they care about the principle that you should be able to go about your business without getting invaded more than about Ukraine specifically. It's like if someone gets mugged in your town - you may not care that much about the specific victim but you care about the principle that the muggers don't get away with it.

ivan_gammel 2y ago
Yeah, some part of Western political elites does care about it, sometimes dogmatically. However it is applied selectively and with plenty of excuses - a moral standing, but not a moral standard. And it has quite low priority compared to vital national interests or even internal politics.