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From my standpoint as a software packager I have trouble believing that upending the entire video ecosystem on Linux was worth fixing this alleged "tearing" pro

From my standpoint as a software packager I have trouble believing that upending the entire video ecosystem on Linux was worth fixing this alleged "tearing" problem which is the main thing people bring up as the reason we all spent a decade doing this. (Along with some honestly fantastical worries about screen scraping -- the answer for that is open source.) Honestly Wim did this right on the audio side. If it was so important to bring what Wayland has brought someone should have written a display server that talked to display clients just like the old server did and upgraded gracefully if the client had the new capabilities. You didn't even have to recompile software to use pipewire, let alone rewrite it.

LtWorf 2y ago
The real reason wayland was done is to put proprietary applications on the desktop. That's it.
- bandrami 2y ago
  Which is ironic since it's the proprietary stuff I have to use that is least likely to work on Wayland at this point...
- yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
  How so? Proprietary apps work fine on X. Or do you mean the security angle where flatpak wants to be able to isolate untrusted (including proprietary) apps?
  - LtWorf 2y ago
    untrusted are only the proprietary apps… if you can review the code they aren't untrusted :)
    - yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
      I generally trust FOSS to not be malicious. I don't trust it to be bug free when processing untrusted input. So no, I really do want to sandbox plenty of apps regardless.
      - bandrami 2y ago
        Sandboxing is still a solution in search of a problem. The only actual valuable data on my computer is the personal stuff that even sandboxed apps are meant to manipulate anyways. Everything else in the system I can download from the Internet for free, but my web browser still has to interact with my passwords and my spreadsheet with my finances, and sandboxing can't fix that.
        yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
        > my web browser still has to interact with my passwords and my spreadsheet with my finances, and sandboxing can't fix that True, but sandboxing can fix your browser being able to read your spreadsheets without asking, or your spreadsheet having network access. Just because you have to work with programs and data doesn't mean they're all in the same security domain.
- account42 2y ago
  More precisely, to put proprietary "apps" on an appliance. Windows desktop works fine for proprietary programs without any of the "security" features that Wayland-proponents want to push.
bluGill 2y ago
Tearing is the easiest issue to demonstrate to people. Security is something you don't realize you care about until it is too late.

LtWorf 2y ago

The real reason wayland was done is to put proprietary applications on the desktop. That's it.

bandrami 2y ago
Which is ironic since it's the proprietary stuff I have to use that is least likely to work on Wayland at this point...
yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
How so? Proprietary apps work fine on X. Or do you mean the security angle where flatpak wants to be able to isolate untrusted (including proprietary) apps?
- LtWorf 2y ago
  untrusted are only the proprietary apps… if you can review the code they aren't untrusted :)
  - yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
    I generally trust FOSS to not be malicious. I don't trust it to be bug free when processing untrusted input. So no, I really do want to sandbox plenty of apps regardless.
    - bandrami 2y ago
      Sandboxing is still a solution in search of a problem. The only actual valuable data on my computer is the personal stuff that even sandboxed apps are meant to manipulate anyways. Everything else in the system I can download from the Internet for free, but my web browser still has to interact with my passwords and my spreadsheet with my finances, and sandboxing can't fix that.
      - yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
        > my web browser still has to interact with my passwords and my spreadsheet with my finances, and sandboxing can't fix that True, but sandboxing can fix your browser being able to read your spreadsheets without asking, or your spreadsheet having network access. Just because you have to work with programs and data doesn't mean they're all in the same security domain.
account42 2y ago
More precisely, to put proprietary "apps" on an appliance. Windows desktop works fine for proprietary programs without any of the "security" features that Wayland-proponents want to push.

bluGill 2y ago

Tearing is the easiest issue to demonstrate to people. Security is something you don't realize you care about until it is too late.