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Fully disagree. Tokenization enables better financial markets. Bitcoin is the useless asset since it's proven that productive assets (think stocks) are better s

Fully disagree. Tokenization enables better financial markets. Bitcoin is the useless asset since it's proven that productive assets (think stocks) are better store of values than unproductive ones (think gold). Ethereum in that sense is productive because you can stake it for a yield and collaterize it natively to borrow against it and you can tokenize anything on top of it.

hocuspocus 2y ago
Why would you need a blockchain for tokenization?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
leishman 2y ago
If tokenization requires a trusted party to issue the tokens (think stocks) then no blockchain is needed
- kinakomochidayo 2y ago
  Then that means stablecoins aren’t needed. And yet, reality disagrees with your logic and stablecoins are on track to be used even more. Tokenization on Ethereum will end up being way more important and useful than pet rock Bitcoin.
  - hocuspocus 2y ago
    The most popular stablecoins aren't trustless, proving the parent's point.
    - kinakomochidayo 2y ago
      Parent's point is weak - it's not possible right now for people around the world to hold fiat/stocks in their own centralized, custodial wallets due to stringent KYC/AML, and blockchains currently fill that need for stablecoins, and will fill that need for tokenized stocks, treasuries, etc.
      - hocuspocus 2y ago
        And again, nobody needs blockchains to tokenize centrally issued securities.
- wslh 2y ago
  There's an intermediary scenario to consider: when multiple trusted parties are involved. This is basic computer science, and software engineering: crash and byzantine fault-tolerant systems. On a related note, blockchains often obscure the true consensus mechanism behind layers of complex jargon. Upon closer inspection, consensus is still built on trusted parties, just not the same ones typically found in the traditional economy. In Bitcoin, for example, you not only have the relatively few powerful miners but also the Bitcoin Core developers, who wield significant influence over which changes are incorporated into the Bitcoin node. For example, enabling the OP_CAT opcode again [1][2]. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoTechnology/comments/19bik6z/unveiling_the_potential_of_op_cat_in_bitcoin_a/ https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoTechnology/comments/19bik6z/u... [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/19adyi0/should_op_cat_be_activated/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/19adyi0/should_op_...
  - kinakomochidayo 2y ago
    There’s also ASIC manufacturing monopoly
leishman 2y ago
[flagged]
- oellegaard 2y ago
  except you cannot melt it and wear it to show off
  - rvnx 2y ago
    and you cannot produce electronics out of it, nor use it in dentistry, or medicine.
    - leishman 2y ago
      one reason it's better money than Gold, there are no industrial supply/demand dynamics impacting its price. It's pure monetary premium
  - jonbodner 2y ago
    And gold is a non reactive physical object. Storing gold is cheap compared to the infrastructure required to keep Bitcoin ledger information.
    - DonHopkins 2y ago
      You need gold in a computer to mine bitcoin, but you don't need bitcoin to mine gold.
- losteric 2y ago
  Why bitcoin instead of doge or any of the other digital golds?
  - hollerith 2y ago
    Because more people have confidence in Bitcoin than the other digital golds because it has been in the news the most over the years. Also, the price won't be as volatile as the other coins (even though it is much more volatile than dollars) because if someone decides to sell $50 million worth of Bitcoin, the price barely budges because $50 million is such a small fraction of the $2.2 trillion worth of Bitcoin in existence.
oa335 2y ago
> Bitcoin is the useless asset since it's proven that productive assets (think stocks) are better store of values than unproductive ones (think gold). This has hardly been proven. Gold has been recognized as source of value across several millennia and multiple cultures. I would bet that 1000 years from now gold will still have value, whereas stocks are only valuable in as much as the rights that they represent can be enforced by a court and implicitly the state backing it.
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 2y ago
  We are <one mile-sized asteroid made of gold> away from gold losing all its value. One such asteroid has been discovered already. It's called 16 Psyche, 140 miles in diameter and made largely of gold and other precious metals. To compare, all gold ever mined on Earth fits into a 22-meter cube.
  - oa335 2y ago
    We are one government/imperial collapse from US stocks losing all value. Historically which is more likely to happen?
    - EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 2y ago
      Both are more likely to happen than Bitcoin being cracked.
  - lolc 2y ago
    How are you so certain about the composition of 16 Psyche?
    - EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 2y ago
      NASA was confident enough to send a rocket towards it, it is scheduled to reach 16 Psyche in 2029.

hocuspocus 2y ago

Why would you need a blockchain for tokenization?

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

leishman 2y ago

If tokenization requires a trusted party to issue the tokens (think stocks) then no blockchain is needed

kinakomochidayo 2y ago
Then that means stablecoins aren’t needed. And yet, reality disagrees with your logic and stablecoins are on track to be used even more. Tokenization on Ethereum will end up being way more important and useful than pet rock Bitcoin.
- hocuspocus 2y ago
  The most popular stablecoins aren't trustless, proving the parent's point.
  - kinakomochidayo 2y ago
    Parent's point is weak - it's not possible right now for people around the world to hold fiat/stocks in their own centralized, custodial wallets due to stringent KYC/AML, and blockchains currently fill that need for stablecoins, and will fill that need for tokenized stocks, treasuries, etc.
    - hocuspocus 2y ago
      And again, nobody needs blockchains to tokenize centrally issued securities.
wslh 2y ago
There's an intermediary scenario to consider: when multiple trusted parties are involved. This is basic computer science, and software engineering: crash and byzantine fault-tolerant systems. On a related note, blockchains often obscure the true consensus mechanism behind layers of complex jargon. Upon closer inspection, consensus is still built on trusted parties, just not the same ones typically found in the traditional economy. In Bitcoin, for example, you not only have the relatively few powerful miners but also the Bitcoin Core developers, who wield significant influence over which changes are incorporated into the Bitcoin node. For example, enabling the OP_CAT opcode again [1][2]. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoTechnology/comments/19bik6z/unveiling_the_potential_of_op_cat_in_bitcoin_a/ https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoTechnology/comments/19bik6z/u... [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/19adyi0/should_op_cat_be_activated/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/19adyi0/should_op_...
- kinakomochidayo 2y ago
  There’s also ASIC manufacturing monopoly

leishman 2y ago

[flagged]

oellegaard 2y ago
except you cannot melt it and wear it to show off
- rvnx 2y ago
  and you cannot produce electronics out of it, nor use it in dentistry, or medicine.
  - leishman 2y ago
    one reason it's better money than Gold, there are no industrial supply/demand dynamics impacting its price. It's pure monetary premium
- jonbodner 2y ago
  And gold is a non reactive physical object. Storing gold is cheap compared to the infrastructure required to keep Bitcoin ledger information.
  - DonHopkins 2y ago
    You need gold in a computer to mine bitcoin, but you don't need bitcoin to mine gold.
losteric 2y ago
Why bitcoin instead of doge or any of the other digital golds?
- hollerith 2y ago
  Because more people have confidence in Bitcoin than the other digital golds because it has been in the news the most over the years. Also, the price won't be as volatile as the other coins (even though it is much more volatile than dollars) because if someone decides to sell $50 million worth of Bitcoin, the price barely budges because $50 million is such a small fraction of the $2.2 trillion worth of Bitcoin in existence.

oa335 2y ago

> Bitcoin is the useless asset since it's proven that productive assets (think stocks) are better store of values than unproductive ones (think gold). This has hardly been proven. Gold has been recognized as source of value across several millennia and multiple cultures. I would bet that 1000 years from now gold will still have value, whereas stocks are only valuable in as much as the rights that they represent can be enforced by a court and implicitly the state backing it.

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 2y ago
We are <one mile-sized asteroid made of gold> away from gold losing all its value. One such asteroid has been discovered already. It's called 16 Psyche, 140 miles in diameter and made largely of gold and other precious metals. To compare, all gold ever mined on Earth fits into a 22-meter cube.
- oa335 2y ago
  We are one government/imperial collapse from US stocks losing all value. Historically which is more likely to happen?
  - EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 2y ago
    Both are more likely to happen than Bitcoin being cracked.
- lolc 2y ago
  How are you so certain about the composition of 16 Psyche?
  - EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 2y ago
    NASA was confident enough to send a rocket towards it, it is scheduled to reach 16 Psyche in 2029.