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> But you keep the complicated power train The "drive train" is electric motors from a lithium ion battery... you know, like a "regular" EV. > time suck of ta

> But you keep the complicated power train The "drive train" is electric motors from a lithium ion battery... you know, like a "regular" EV. > time suck of tank-filling from ICE vehicles. The Toyota spec page says it can fill the tank in 5 minutes. How many EVs can go from nothing or practically nothing to a full charge in 5 minutes?

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> "drive train" is electric motors from a lithium ion battery... you know, like a "regular" EV It's an EV + a fuel cell and tank assembly. Same drivetrain. Complicated powertrain [1]. > Toyota spec page says it can fill the tank in 5 minutes. How many EVs can go from nothing or practically nothing to a full charge in 5 minutes? 5 minutes to fill, call it ten minutes round trip to get there and back, plus scheduling friction: that's 20 to 30 minutes out of the day. If you don't own a car, you don't have to do this. I don't own an EV. But the people I know who do spend close to zero minutes a year actually charging their EV. It happens silently while parked at home or at work or, on road trips, while they lunch. The normalisation of the fill-up routine is mind-bogglingly taxing in a way that's obvious to anyone who's spent any amount of time as an adult not driving a car (for Americans, living in New York). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powertrain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powertrain
- stephenr 2y ago
  > The normalisation of the fill-up routine I've owned and driven ICE vehicles since the late 90s. I've owned cars in the country and the city, in 3 states of one country and in a second country. I've driven cars significant distances in two further countries. The trip you describe where you're going out of your way specially to get fuel and then return, is an exceedingly rare occurrence IME. It's generally just something I (or my wife) will do on the way as the tank gets to somewhere below half or a third full. Obviously if we're on a long distance trip we'll be more specific about it, but the expectation you have about making a special trip just to get fuel in a car is, as you put it "mind boggling".
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > It's generally just something I (or my wife) will do on the way as the tank gets to somewhere below half or a third full Okay, you're still adding a minimum of 10 minutes to your day? A couple times a month? The convenience of not having to do that should be undeniable.
    - stephenr 2y ago
      > A couple times a month? Maybe that would be the case with a fuel cell due to lower energy density, I don't know. It's certainly not the case with an efficient ICE car. My Mazda gets up to 1,200 km from a tank of diesel. The VW I had ~15 years ago got about 950km from a tank of unleaded. Don't get me wrong, I understand that recharging a battery vehicle at home is convenient for day to day short journeys due to it's convenience via passiveness - but but a stop to get fuel is hardly comparable to the sort of delays you have with charging battery vehicles in the same scenario.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> "drive train" is electric motors from a lithium ion battery... you know, like a "regular" EV It's an EV + a fuel cell and tank assembly. Same drivetrain. Complicated powertrain [1]. > Toyota spec page says it can fill the tank in 5 minutes. How many EVs can go from nothing or practically nothing to a full charge in 5 minutes? 5 minutes to fill, call it ten minutes round trip to get there and back, plus scheduling friction: that's 20 to 30 minutes out of the day. If you don't own a car, you don't have to do this. I don't own an EV. But the people I know who do spend close to zero minutes a year actually charging their EV. It happens silently while parked at home or at work or, on road trips, while they lunch. The normalisation of the fill-up routine is mind-bogglingly taxing in a way that's obvious to anyone who's spent any amount of time as an adult not driving a car (for Americans, living in New York). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powertrain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powertrain

stephenr 2y ago
> The normalisation of the fill-up routine I've owned and driven ICE vehicles since the late 90s. I've owned cars in the country and the city, in 3 states of one country and in a second country. I've driven cars significant distances in two further countries. The trip you describe where you're going out of your way specially to get fuel and then return, is an exceedingly rare occurrence IME. It's generally just something I (or my wife) will do on the way as the tank gets to somewhere below half or a third full. Obviously if we're on a long distance trip we'll be more specific about it, but the expectation you have about making a special trip just to get fuel in a car is, as you put it "mind boggling".
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > It's generally just something I (or my wife) will do on the way as the tank gets to somewhere below half or a third full Okay, you're still adding a minimum of 10 minutes to your day? A couple times a month? The convenience of not having to do that should be undeniable.
  - stephenr 2y ago
    > A couple times a month? Maybe that would be the case with a fuel cell due to lower energy density, I don't know. It's certainly not the case with an efficient ICE car. My Mazda gets up to 1,200 km from a tank of diesel. The VW I had ~15 years ago got about 950km from a tank of unleaded. Don't get me wrong, I understand that recharging a battery vehicle at home is convenient for day to day short journeys due to it's convenience via passiveness - but but a stop to get fuel is hardly comparable to the sort of delays you have with charging battery vehicles in the same scenario.