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> Don't blame the potato theives or potato cartels, blame the politicians that built the system to work this way. Blame both.

tomaskafka 2y ago
Oh, and don't forget the voters, who mostly don't care, thus enabling the cartels that extract value from them to grow unchecked.
- insane_dreamer 2y ago
  I'm not sure that the voters don't care -- it's mostly that they don't know. Because they are being constantly flooded with messaging that screams in other directions: "it's the immigrants!!" "it's trans people!" "it's those f*ing libs!!" "it's those MAGA idiots!!" etc. etc. And because these things are complicated, it's hard to boil them down to a few words that stick with voters, and attempts to do so come off as "West/East Coast Elitism". This is why populism is great for large monopolistic corporations so long as it can be channeled away from them (which they spend a great deal of money on).
- dghlsakjg 2y ago
  The potato cartel has convinced a lot of voters that what's good for the cartel is good for everyone...
chipotle_coyote 2y ago
Yes. I see this kind of "if your lock is easy to pick and your house is robbed, it's not the burglar's fault" argument a lot -- it's the lock-maker's fault! It's your fault for not doing enough research on locks! Or more commonly on HN, it's the fault of too much regulation somehow? -- and, it's like, okay, all of those factors may be worth considering, but the burglar still made a conscious decision to rob you. The burglary is not some inevitable consequence of systemic failure. If somebody leaves their laptop on a bar top for a few minutes to go to the bathroom and you steal it, "hey, they left it there" is not some kind of magic get out of jail free card for you. You chose to steal it. And, yep: if four companies that control 97% of their market conspire to fix prices together, they are making a conscious decision to do so. There may be systemic failures which make it easier for them to do that than there should be, but they're still choosing to do it knowing that it's wrong. I'd go so far as to say that they're actually counting on people pointing the finger anywhere but at them. It's not us, it's just inflation! It's not us, it's the Biden administration! It's not us, it's something something something Covid! Yeah, okay, but at the end of the day, you're consciously choosing to price gouge. Doctorow's point is, I think, that companies are deflecting from this by saying "it's not us, it's the apps, man! They're telling us what the optimal prices are, and we're just following their command!" But that's still, at the end of the day, price-fixing. It's _outsourced_ price-fixing, but it's still price-fixing.
daveguy 2y ago
Well, mainly blame the potato cartels and the politicians. The potato theives are the only ones the deterence system is nominally working to prevent.

tomaskafka 2y ago

Oh, and don't forget the voters, who mostly don't care, thus enabling the cartels that extract value from them to grow unchecked.

insane_dreamer 2y ago
I'm not sure that the voters don't care -- it's mostly that they don't know. Because they are being constantly flooded with messaging that screams in other directions: "it's the immigrants!!" "it's trans people!" "it's those f*ing libs!!" "it's those MAGA idiots!!" etc. etc. And because these things are complicated, it's hard to boil them down to a few words that stick with voters, and attempts to do so come off as "West/East Coast Elitism". This is why populism is great for large monopolistic corporations so long as it can be channeled away from them (which they spend a great deal of money on).
dghlsakjg 2y ago
The potato cartel has convinced a lot of voters that what's good for the cartel is good for everyone...

chipotle_coyote 2y ago

Yes. I see this kind of "if your lock is easy to pick and your house is robbed, it's not the burglar's fault" argument a lot -- it's the lock-maker's fault! It's your fault for not doing enough research on locks! Or more commonly on HN, it's the fault of too much regulation somehow? -- and, it's like, okay, all of those factors may be worth considering, but the burglar still made a conscious decision to rob you. The burglary is not some inevitable consequence of systemic failure. If somebody leaves their laptop on a bar top for a few minutes to go to the bathroom and you steal it, "hey, they left it there" is not some kind of magic get out of jail free card for you. You chose to steal it. And, yep: if four companies that control 97% of their market conspire to fix prices together, they are making a conscious decision to do so. There may be systemic failures which make it easier for them to do that than there should be, but they're still choosing to do it knowing that it's wrong. I'd go so far as to say that they're actually counting on people pointing the finger anywhere but at them. It's not us, it's just inflation! It's not us, it's the Biden administration! It's not us, it's something something something Covid! Yeah, okay, but at the end of the day, you're consciously choosing to price gouge. Doctorow's point is, I think, that companies are deflecting from this by saying "it's not us, it's the apps, man! They're telling us what the optimal prices are, and we're just following their command!" But that's still, at the end of the day, price-fixing. It's _outsourced_ price-fixing, but it's still price-fixing.

daveguy 2y ago

Well, mainly blame the potato cartels and the politicians. The potato theives are the only ones the deterence system is nominally working to prevent.