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What type of transactions do you need to make outside of business hours that you can’t do electronically? And who actually deals with physical checks? Even the

What type of transactions do you need to make outside of business hours that you can’t do electronically? And who actually deals with physical checks? Even the various contractors I used when preparing my home for sell took some form of electronic payment

dylan604 2y ago
if i transfer money from one bank's account to another, it takes minimum of 48 hours if I make the request before 3pm cutoff time. Day 1, the transfer request is made at 1pm. Day 2, the money is no longer available in the sending account yet not in the receiving account. Day 3, the money is available in the receiving account. If I do it after 3pm, the request is not placed until Day 2. Why? WTF does a computer have a cutoff time? Does it go home and cook dinner for the family and do homework with the kids? >took some form of electronic payment These are nothing but electronic requests. No human needs to be involved, yet here we are. But sure, let's go ahead and argue like I don't have valid issues because you seem to not have any.
- scarface_74 2y ago
  Zelle is run by the banks and transfers are instant and free. https://www.zellepay.com/faq/how-long-does-it-take-receive-money-zelle https://www.zellepay.com/faq/how-long-does-it-take-receive-m...
  - dylan604 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - scarface_74 2y ago
      You’re right, these are the only banks that support Zelle https://www.zellepay.com/get-started https://www.zellepay.com/get-started
      - dylan604 2y ago
        i hope you get paid for all of your shilling
        scarface_74 2y ago
        You just can’t admit you are wrong can you? Zelle is free, supported by almost every bank in the US - I’m sure you will find one obscure credit union in East MiddleOfNowhere South Dakota who doesn’t support it - and it’s instant
        dylan604 2y ago
        you can't just admit you don't know wtf you are talking about checks are a valid form of payment. if you receive one you have to be able to deal with it. some checks are too large for deposit via app. as someone else pointed out, zelle has limits that make sending large payments problematic. receiving a single check is much easier. " supported by almost every bank in the US -" thanks for proving the point though
        scarface_74 2y ago
        Yes, I’m sure you can find some obscure bank where it’s not supported, can you find at least 5 and tell me what percentage of people it affects? I can’t think of one scenario where someone would be willing to take a large paper check in 2025. You would actually accept a paper check from someone over $10K?
        dylan604 2y ago
        > I can’t think of one scenario where someone would be willing to take a large paper check in 2025. You can't think very hard then? > You would actually accept a paper check from someone over $10K? yes. i have and will continue to do so. what, i'm going to say no to receiving money? after depositing that check, only a fraction of it was available the next day, with the remaining becoming available 3 or 4 days later.
  - RestlessMind 2y ago
    Zelle has a limit on the amount I can transfer, especially for new contacts. And it is precisely new contacts where I need to make a big payment, latest example being the contractor to remodeled my kitchen and didn't want credit card payment for some reason.
    - dylan604 2y ago
      > didn't want credit card payment for some reason. i'm guessing 3.5%+ is the some reason
      - Spooky23 2y ago
        Tradesmen who are allergic to credit cards are always avoiding tax, period. The proper response is to ask for the cash price.
        scarface_74 2y ago
        Exactly this. Paying 3% more for credit card vs cash is a wash for me. I get 2x back by charging it to my Amex Blue Business Plus, those 2x points are easily worth more than 3% when transferring to an airline.
  - zellehell 2y ago
    Zelle isn't run by the banks, it's operated by Early Warning and it's a scam service designed to harvest everyone's bank transaction history for intelligence gathering and fraud detection services https://www.earlywarning.com/ https://www.earlywarning.com/
    - scarface_74 2y ago
      An the Early Warning System is co-owned by 7 banks https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/2024/08/14/zelle-investigation-safety-which-banks-own-customer-disputes/74764704007/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CZelle%2520is%2520owned%2520by%2520Early,Wells%2520Fargo%252C%E2%80%9D%2520NerdWallet%2520says https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/2024/08/14/zelle-inv.... > Zelle is owned by Early Warning Services, a financial tech firm and consumer reporting agency that is co-owned by seven of the largest U.S. banks: Bank of America, Capital One, Chase, PNC, Truist, U.S. Bank and Wells Fargo, Once you are part of the banking system, everything is tracked anyway
- ianburrell 2y ago
  Wait for FedNow to get rolled out. That is the Federal Reserve's instant payment system. It does need to be implemented by banks cause it is just an API. One nice feature is that it has push model, pulling money means making request that can be approved which should increase the security.
  - wahern 2y ago
    The problem with pushing payments is that the cost of fraud falls on the payer. In the pull model, if the payer says it was unauthorized, the rules favor the payer--restoring the payer account happens as a matter of course, and disputes are handled subsequently. This sucks for the payee, but they're usually businesses who are more sophisticated and better placed to handle these issues. But in the push model, the presumption is the payment was intended by the payer. It's a wholly reasonable presumption assuming sophisticated, rational agents. But we're talking rolling out push payment systems where the payer will be your elderly grandmother. It won't be pretty unless there are some aggressive changes to existing regulatory and legal frameworks. But it's not easy to figure out to protect consumers in push payment systems without opening gaps where fraudsters can directly abuse the system, like checking kiting scams of old. (Checks are a pull payment type of system, but the important point is that the cost of check fraud--forged, kiting, etc--fell primarily on banks and merchants, and less on individual grandmas who couldn't buy food because they were stuck in a months-long battle with the bank to recover funds.)
    - ianburrell 2y ago
      Pulling fraud with ACH is pretty rare. All the scammers trick people into sending them money, or take over account and send it, this is more common with phones and Zelle. The latter would be handled with current system. The former isn't handled with current system, and would be helped if there was way to reject transfers to help with return money scams. There is danger that people will send money on bogus requests, but invoice fraud is already covered. Other countries have the same model of sharing account number widely and it works.
      - 2y ago
- epolanski 2y ago
  In Europe we have instant bank transfers, for free in Italy as of January 2025. The bad thing is that they don't work outside business hours (not a huge problem), and that you can't cancel/revert it.
- dutchbookmaker 2y ago
  This is because of counter party risk with settlement. It is not hard to figure out. You just have no idea what you are talking about.
- blitzar 2y ago
  > if i transfer money from one bank's account to another, it takes minimum of 48 hours if I make the request before 3pm cutoff time In the bulk of the free world these transfers are instant 24/7 - if I stay within the single banking brand I can do that internationally.

dylan604 2y ago

if i transfer money from one bank's account to another, it takes minimum of 48 hours if I make the request before 3pm cutoff time. Day 1, the transfer request is made at 1pm. Day 2, the money is no longer available in the sending account yet not in the receiving account. Day 3, the money is available in the receiving account. If I do it after 3pm, the request is not placed until Day 2. Why? WTF does a computer have a cutoff time? Does it go home and cook dinner for the family and do homework with the kids? >took some form of electronic payment These are nothing but electronic requests. No human needs to be involved, yet here we are. But sure, let's go ahead and argue like I don't have valid issues because you seem to not have any.

scarface_74 2y ago
Zelle is run by the banks and transfers are instant and free. https://www.zellepay.com/faq/how-long-does-it-take-receive-money-zelle https://www.zellepay.com/faq/how-long-does-it-take-receive-m...
- dylan604 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    You’re right, these are the only banks that support Zelle https://www.zellepay.com/get-started https://www.zellepay.com/get-started
    - dylan604 2y ago
      i hope you get paid for all of your shilling
      - scarface_74 2y ago
        You just can’t admit you are wrong can you? Zelle is free, supported by almost every bank in the US - I’m sure you will find one obscure credit union in East MiddleOfNowhere South Dakota who doesn’t support it - and it’s instant
        dylan604 2y ago
        you can't just admit you don't know wtf you are talking about checks are a valid form of payment. if you receive one you have to be able to deal with it. some checks are too large for deposit via app. as someone else pointed out, zelle has limits that make sending large payments problematic. receiving a single check is much easier. " supported by almost every bank in the US -" thanks for proving the point though
        scarface_74 2y ago
        Yes, I’m sure you can find some obscure bank where it’s not supported, can you find at least 5 and tell me what percentage of people it affects? I can’t think of one scenario where someone would be willing to take a large paper check in 2025. You would actually accept a paper check from someone over $10K?
        dylan604 2y ago
        > I can’t think of one scenario where someone would be willing to take a large paper check in 2025. You can't think very hard then? > You would actually accept a paper check from someone over $10K? yes. i have and will continue to do so. what, i'm going to say no to receiving money? after depositing that check, only a fraction of it was available the next day, with the remaining becoming available 3 or 4 days later.
- RestlessMind 2y ago
  Zelle has a limit on the amount I can transfer, especially for new contacts. And it is precisely new contacts where I need to make a big payment, latest example being the contractor to remodeled my kitchen and didn't want credit card payment for some reason.
  - dylan604 2y ago
    > didn't want credit card payment for some reason. i'm guessing 3.5%+ is the some reason
    - Spooky23 2y ago
      Tradesmen who are allergic to credit cards are always avoiding tax, period. The proper response is to ask for the cash price.
      - scarface_74 2y ago
        Exactly this. Paying 3% more for credit card vs cash is a wash for me. I get 2x back by charging it to my Amex Blue Business Plus, those 2x points are easily worth more than 3% when transferring to an airline.
- zellehell 2y ago
  Zelle isn't run by the banks, it's operated by Early Warning and it's a scam service designed to harvest everyone's bank transaction history for intelligence gathering and fraud detection services https://www.earlywarning.com/ https://www.earlywarning.com/
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    An the Early Warning System is co-owned by 7 banks https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/2024/08/14/zelle-investigation-safety-which-banks-own-customer-disputes/74764704007/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CZelle%2520is%2520owned%2520by%2520Early,Wells%2520Fargo%252C%E2%80%9D%2520NerdWallet%2520says https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/2024/08/14/zelle-inv.... > Zelle is owned by Early Warning Services, a financial tech firm and consumer reporting agency that is co-owned by seven of the largest U.S. banks: Bank of America, Capital One, Chase, PNC, Truist, U.S. Bank and Wells Fargo, Once you are part of the banking system, everything is tracked anyway
ianburrell 2y ago
Wait for FedNow to get rolled out. That is the Federal Reserve's instant payment system. It does need to be implemented by banks cause it is just an API. One nice feature is that it has push model, pulling money means making request that can be approved which should increase the security.
- wahern 2y ago
  The problem with pushing payments is that the cost of fraud falls on the payer. In the pull model, if the payer says it was unauthorized, the rules favor the payer--restoring the payer account happens as a matter of course, and disputes are handled subsequently. This sucks for the payee, but they're usually businesses who are more sophisticated and better placed to handle these issues. But in the push model, the presumption is the payment was intended by the payer. It's a wholly reasonable presumption assuming sophisticated, rational agents. But we're talking rolling out push payment systems where the payer will be your elderly grandmother. It won't be pretty unless there are some aggressive changes to existing regulatory and legal frameworks. But it's not easy to figure out to protect consumers in push payment systems without opening gaps where fraudsters can directly abuse the system, like checking kiting scams of old. (Checks are a pull payment type of system, but the important point is that the cost of check fraud--forged, kiting, etc--fell primarily on banks and merchants, and less on individual grandmas who couldn't buy food because they were stuck in a months-long battle with the bank to recover funds.)
  - ianburrell 2y ago
    Pulling fraud with ACH is pretty rare. All the scammers trick people into sending them money, or take over account and send it, this is more common with phones and Zelle. The latter would be handled with current system. The former isn't handled with current system, and would be helped if there was way to reject transfers to help with return money scams. There is danger that people will send money on bogus requests, but invoice fraud is already covered. Other countries have the same model of sharing account number widely and it works.
    - 2y ago
epolanski 2y ago
In Europe we have instant bank transfers, for free in Italy as of January 2025. The bad thing is that they don't work outside business hours (not a huge problem), and that you can't cancel/revert it.
dutchbookmaker 2y ago
This is because of counter party risk with settlement. It is not hard to figure out. You just have no idea what you are talking about.
blitzar 2y ago
> if i transfer money from one bank's account to another, it takes minimum of 48 hours if I make the request before 3pm cutoff time In the bulk of the free world these transfers are instant 24/7 - if I stay within the single banking brand I can do that internationally.