4 ms·
GPT4 is also full of ideology, but of course the type you probably grew up with, so harder to see. (No offense intended, this is just the way ideology works).
by bildung 2y ago
GPT4 is also full of ideology, but of course the type you probably grew up with, so harder to see. (No offense intended, this is just the way ideology works).
Try for example to persuade GPT to argue that the workers doing data labeling in Kenya should be better compensated relative to the programmers in SF, as the work they do is both critical for good data for training and often very gruesome, with many workers getting PTSD from all the horrible content they filter out.
I couldn't, about a year ago. The model always tried to argue in favor of the status quo because of market forces - which is, of course, axiomatic ideology.
- ETH_start 2y agoIf you've forced OpenAI to pay Kenyans as much as Americans, then OpenAI simply would stop hiring Kenyans. Beware of the unintended consequences of your ideological narrative.
- bildung 2y agoI am not arguing for anything in this case, just pointing out how western ideology finds its way in GPT etc. Also, I didn't write anything about demanding equal pay.
- ETH_start 2y agoIt is not ideology that finds that society benefits when prices are allowed to emerge without restrictions on contract freedom.
- ptidhomme 2y agoBeware of yours. Working in inhuman conditions cannot be justified by any amount of money.
- ETH_start 2y agoThey will work in more inhuman conditions if we follow your ideology
- jokethrowaway 2y agoYour example is extreme, of course kenyan labelers contribute a minuscule fraction of value and they would be easily replaced by other workers if needed. Replacing the engineers is harder. Labelling data is easier (and therefore cheaper) than doing machine learning. OpenAI often argues for socialism-light, aka today's social democracies that leech on the middle class and favor politicians and the rich elite class. It doesn't argue for full blown socialism with equal pay for any job. I think the historical proof is just too large to argue otherwise, which is why socialist politicians are going for the UBI alternative. Same crap, but hey it will totally work this time.
- bildung 2y agoThis is the same axomatic ideology that GPT responded with. Miniscule fraction of what value? What do you think would happen to openai's valuation if their models would accidently advocate for pedophilia or building bombs? I mean this very topic we comment on just vaporized the market value of openai to single digit percentages. Openai raised nearly $18B, while DeepSeek-R1 cost $6M, works just as fine and is open. It has just been empirically proven that the market value of the developers working on GPT is actually dramatically lower than the payment they got.
- nipah 2y ago> It has just been empirically proven that the market value of the developers working on GPT is actually dramatically lower than the payment they got. Completely and absolutely false, there is no "empirical proof" of this. And this is just post-hoc reasoning, it is extremely easy to just look down the past after everything is already settled. It was OpenAI developers that researched that technology and implemented it first, DeepSeek was made AFTER it, it was already benefiting from the GPT technology in the first place (they even probably used it as a material to make more training data, as almost all current models used).
- dfilppi 2y ago[dead]
- astrange 2y agoThe Kenyan government isn't particularly in favor of this, because they don't want their essential workers (like doctors and civil servants) all quitting to become high-paid data labellers. Unfortunately, one kind of industrial policy you might want to do attract foreign investment (like building factories) is to prevent local wages from growing too fast.
- bildung 2y agoAgain, I'm not arguing for anything here. My point was that GPT wasn't willing to imagine a rationale for the labellers to get better compensation.
- nipah 2y agoI love how social engineering entails you to look down on other people's beliefs, and describe to them how it works like it was some kind of understood machinery. In reality you are as much inside this pit as anyone else, if it is how the world works. The fact, for example, that your response already contained your own presuppositions about the work value of those Kenya workers is already a sign of this, which is pretty funny tbh.