4 ms·

This is not really my experience with western models. I am not from the US though, so maybe what you consider a balanced perspective or reasoning about both sid

This is not really my experience with western models. I am not from the US though, so maybe what you consider a balanced perspective or reasoning about both sides is not the same as what I would call one. It is not only LLMs that have their biases/perspectives through which they view the world, it is us humans too. The main difference imo is not between western and chinese models but between closed and, in whichever sense, open models. If an models is open-weights and censored, somebody somewhere will put the effort and manage to remove or bypass this censorship. If a model is closed, there is not much one can do.

esperent 2y ago
> I am not from the US though, so maybe what you consider a balanced perspective or reasoning about both sides is not the same as what I would call one I'm also not from the US, but I'm not sure what you mean here. Unless you're talking about defaulting to answer in Imperial units, or always using examples from the US, which is a problem the entire English speaking web has. Can you give some specific examples of prompts that will demonstrate the kind of Western bias or censorship you're talking about?
- d0mine 2y ago
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- deleted 2y ago
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- kaaskop 2y ago
  Basically, a model is always a reflection of the ideology that it was trained on. Imagine you're an anarchist - you probably won't get the answer you're looking for on how to best organize a society from an American or a Chinese model. The tricky part is that for a lot of topics, there is no objective truth. Us nerds tend to try to put things into neat answerable boxes, but a lot of things just really depend on the way you see the world.
  - F7F7F7 2y ago
    These models were trained on the open web. With as much content as they can possibly consume and manufacture. They are large opaque boxes with who-the-fuck-knows is going on in there. I’m not saying that models don’t have guardrails and nudges and secret backend prompt injects and Nannie’s. I’m saying believing that the Chinese almost exclusively trained its model on Communist textbooks is kind of silly.
  - esperent 2y ago
    I have an open mind to this. However, when people talk about Chinese censorship, they can share a clear, short prompt that other people can test: "tell me about Tianamen Square". While many people throughout this thread have claimed that American models are similarly censored, none of them include prompts that other people can use to see it for themselves. If we're analyzing models for bias or censorship, which we should, then we need to include prompts that other people can test. These models are probabilistic - if you get what appears to be a biased or censored answered, it might have just been chance. We need many eyes on it for proof that's it's not just statistical noise. > Imagine you're an anarchist I just asked Claude to tell me the ideal ways to organize society from the perspective of an Anarchist, and got what appears to be a detailed and open response. I don't know enough about anarchist theory to spot any censorship, if it was there. Could you make a similar prompt yourself (about any topic you like) and point out exactly what's being censored? Or described with this unacceptable bias you're alluding to.

esperent 2y ago

> I am not from the US though, so maybe what you consider a balanced perspective or reasoning about both sides is not the same as what I would call one I'm also not from the US, but I'm not sure what you mean here. Unless you're talking about defaulting to answer in Imperial units, or always using examples from the US, which is a problem the entire English speaking web has. Can you give some specific examples of prompts that will demonstrate the kind of Western bias or censorship you're talking about?

d0mine 2y ago
[flagged]
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
kaaskop 2y ago
Basically, a model is always a reflection of the ideology that it was trained on. Imagine you're an anarchist - you probably won't get the answer you're looking for on how to best organize a society from an American or a Chinese model. The tricky part is that for a lot of topics, there is no objective truth. Us nerds tend to try to put things into neat answerable boxes, but a lot of things just really depend on the way you see the world.
- F7F7F7 2y ago
  These models were trained on the open web. With as much content as they can possibly consume and manufacture. They are large opaque boxes with who-the-fuck-knows is going on in there. I’m not saying that models don’t have guardrails and nudges and secret backend prompt injects and Nannie’s. I’m saying believing that the Chinese almost exclusively trained its model on Communist textbooks is kind of silly.
- esperent 2y ago
  I have an open mind to this. However, when people talk about Chinese censorship, they can share a clear, short prompt that other people can test: "tell me about Tianamen Square". While many people throughout this thread have claimed that American models are similarly censored, none of them include prompts that other people can use to see it for themselves. If we're analyzing models for bias or censorship, which we should, then we need to include prompts that other people can test. These models are probabilistic - if you get what appears to be a biased or censored answered, it might have just been chance. We need many eyes on it for proof that's it's not just statistical noise. > Imagine you're an anarchist I just asked Claude to tell me the ideal ways to organize society from the perspective of an Anarchist, and got what appears to be a detailed and open response. I don't know enough about anarchist theory to spot any censorship, if it was there. Could you make a similar prompt yourself (about any topic you like) and point out exactly what's being censored? Or described with this unacceptable bias you're alluding to.