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The brain can invent formal language that enables unambiguously specifying an algorithm that when provided with a huge amount of input data can simulate the out

The brain can invent formal language that enables unambiguously specifying an algorithm that when provided with a huge amount of input data can simulate the output of the brain itself. Can these models do that?

ben_w 2y ago
> The brain can invent formal language that enables unambiguously specifying an algorithm that when provided with a huge amount of input data can simulate the output of the brain itself. Can *a* brain do this? Every effort I've seen has (1) involved *many people* working on different parts of the problem, and (2) so far we've only got partial solutions. Even if you allow collaboration, then when (2) goes away, your question is trivially answered "yes" because we just feed into the model the same experiences that were fed into the human(s) who invented the model, and the simulation then simulates them inventing the same model.
- Jensson 2y ago
  > Even if you allow collaboration, then when (2) goes away, your question is trivially answered "yes" because we just feed into the model the same experiences that were fed into the human(s) who invented the model, and the simulation then simulates them inventing the same model. These models doesn't work that way. Its probably possible to make such a model, but currently we don't know how to make them.
  - ben_w 2y ago
    I literally said so, yes.
- mkleczek 2y ago
  Do you have empirical proof any LLM can generate another program that can be trained to simulate it? Otherwise it is science fiction.
  - ben_w 2y ago
    Misread me, but as it happens, I might have seen exactly that. I didn't ask for it, one of the Phi models got confused part way though and started giving me a python script for machine learning instead of what I actually asked for. I'm saying I have no evidence that humans have ever demonstrated this capability either, and if we were to invent such an algorithm and model (even more generally than LLM) the AI that is this would by definition necessarily have to pass this test.

ben_w 2y ago

> The brain can invent formal language that enables unambiguously specifying an algorithm that when provided with a huge amount of input data can simulate the output of the brain itself. Can *a* brain do this? Every effort I've seen has (1) involved *many people* working on different parts of the problem, and (2) so far we've only got partial solutions. Even if you allow collaboration, then when (2) goes away, your question is trivially answered "yes" because we just feed into the model the same experiences that were fed into the human(s) who invented the model, and the simulation then simulates them inventing the same model.

Jensson 2y ago
> Even if you allow collaboration, then when (2) goes away, your question is trivially answered "yes" because we just feed into the model the same experiences that were fed into the human(s) who invented the model, and the simulation then simulates them inventing the same model. These models doesn't work that way. Its probably possible to make such a model, but currently we don't know how to make them.
- ben_w 2y ago
  I literally said so, yes.
mkleczek 2y ago
Do you have empirical proof any LLM can generate another program that can be trained to simulate it? Otherwise it is science fiction.
- ben_w 2y ago
  Misread me, but as it happens, I might have seen exactly that. I didn't ask for it, one of the Phi models got confused part way though and started giving me a python script for machine learning instead of what I actually asked for. I'm saying I have no evidence that humans have ever demonstrated this capability either, and if we were to invent such an algorithm and model (even more generally than LLM) the AI that is this would by definition necessarily have to pass this test.