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In my experience, a lot of the talk about AI making engineers obsolete is coming from people that have some odd, deep-seated hated towards SWEs. I don't know wh

In my experience, a lot of the talk about AI making engineers obsolete is coming from people that have some odd, deep-seated hated towards SWEs. I don't know why people in tech receive so much vitriol compared to all other white collar workers but they definitely do. I have a family member who genuinely hates SWEs and the "lazy dorks" in tech, but, it's like, Buddy, your wife works in tech... You worked at a tech startup that failed...You are now trying to start a startup with only an AI writing the software. You are in tech! But, since he can't read or write code and just delegates to an AI, it's somehow different in his mind. It's honestly exhausting to be around.

nixpulvis 2y ago
I can tell you why people hate tech... becuase so much of it is built poorly and causes nothing but frustration for people. These people are stuck on calls with robots when they need help, or angry that they lost a password and need to prove their identity, they are irritated by broken, ad riddled websites. I used to think I'd be part of the solution... but these days it really feels like nobody in the industry is willing to admit how bad it is.
- PyWoody 2y ago
  I agree with everything you're saying but I'm referring specifically towards people's hatred towards tech workers. Maybe it's just because I live in a small town on the East Coast but it's brutal out here in the sticks. It's gotten to the point where if someone asks what I do for work, I just say "computer stuff" and wave my hands around like I'm typing on an imaginary keyboard. It's vague and odd enough that there aren't any follow-ups or rebuffs.
  - nixpulvis 2y ago
    I do the same thing out here on the west coast if I'm at a bar or whatever. But I think the hatred would be less if the average person actually felt like we were providing value proportional to our salaries, not just having salaries proportional to our intelligence. They also do not accurately understand the cost of keeping things running, which is a problem not isolated to tech. EDIT: wow I'm a special kind of dyslexic tonight. Got east and west mixed up. I live in Boston roflmao. I was picturing you living in northern cali or something >.<
throwaway1625 2y ago
It may be that software development is less gatekeeped than other white collar jobs. No degree, no certification to get started. Thus seen as "lazy". Paid for sitting on your ass. Or it may just be the high school mentality carried over into adulthood. In other words envy. The "dorks" are supposed to stay miserable. Not do what they like and earn good money from it. No surprise it's seen different from being a founder or a manager. Our culture respects these occupations more. They may be in "tech" but they are for sure not the "lazy dorks" the developers are.
jarsin 2y ago
Yeah it ruined numerous relationships in my life. My brother in law turned into a total luddite and liar due to my tech career. He foams at the mouth with stories about Indian's replacing us all. I've thought a lot about it and I believe it's because tech is one of the few careers that has a ton of freedom. In normal job markets we can switch companies easily. We can go raise money and start our own companies etc. Most other careers are do x, y, z then you might have your choice of 1 or 2 employers that you then are mostly stuck working for. I think a lot of people are very threatened by that freedom.
- nixpulvis 2y ago
  I want to live in a world where tech workers aren't the only people with this freedom. How can I as a software engineer by trade help make this world is the question? The talent pool would be improved if not everyone felt they had to become a techie just to live a comfortable life. Though I will say the resurgence in interest in the trades is a good sign, even if it also often comes with a certain rejection from education in general... Idk, lots of big problems and questions here. P.S. I'm sorry your brother can't be happier for the good things in your life.
  - jarsin 2y ago
    I grew up in a homebuilder family and I saw enough as a teenager on job sites to know that the trades are way more screwed up than people think. Very tough getting your foot in the door with an honest builder as a plumber etc. There are so many barriers and tons of nepotism in the trades. I'm sure its much worse today with all the wall st builders dominating the game. You can't even buy lots in the master planned communities sprouting up everywhere unless you can build out an entire subdivision.
    - elzbardico 2y ago
      Nepotism. Cut-throath and a lot of time dishonest competition, life-long health issues. People who haven't come from blue-collar families tend to see the trades through rosy glasses. There's a reason my father worked like a horse so I could study. And while I am pretty competent with manual labor, it would have completely killed him if I followed his foot-steps.
n_ary 2y ago
I would associate these hatred manufactured by “influencers” on social media. Try checking out the fantasy/lies they constantly peddle. It is natural for a normal person to feel hatred when someone putting 5% effort and making google L6 salary somehow(honestly, I don’t even know where these influencers make such salary). While I can say a lot of things, see if you can look at some of these influencer videos/reels on normal people’s timeline, the content is bizarre and goes maximum effort to garner envy, by reducing the entire profession into “learn to code and make millions”. For you/me, we recognize this bs immediately, but for normal people, it is painful when you see that someone is making 350k+ and having time to push out reels all day while also travelling and collecting sports cars/bikes and promoting bill gates/jeff bezos revenue generation per hour. I am unsure if I ever saw such bizarre influencer behavior of other professions.
rsynnott 2y ago
> You are now trying to start a startup with only an AI writing the software. You are in tech! But, since he can't read or write code and just delegates to an AI Oh, yeah, that’ll go well.
elzbardico 2y ago
Those people even have a name for us: The Laptop Class
Zanfa 2y ago
> In my experience, a lot of the talk about AI making engineers obsolete is coming from people that have some odd, deep-seated hated towards SWEs. I’m not convinced it’s hate, but a general misunderstanding of what a SWE does. If you haven’t spent a long time doing it, you might be under the impression it’s mostly about producing lines of code, not trying to figure out what the ticket says should to be done, what can be done and what actually needs to be done and who’s the person(s) that might have the answers. Writing code is the easy part.
aprilthird2021 2y ago
It's the pay. People know it's a high paying profession that nerds do, and that makes them mad. Similar kind of thing for people who work in finance

nixpulvis 2y ago

I can tell you why people hate tech... becuase so much of it is built poorly and causes nothing but frustration for people. These people are stuck on calls with robots when they need help, or angry that they lost a password and need to prove their identity, they are irritated by broken, ad riddled websites. I used to think I'd be part of the solution... but these days it really feels like nobody in the industry is willing to admit how bad it is.

PyWoody 2y ago
I agree with everything you're saying but I'm referring specifically towards people's hatred towards tech workers. Maybe it's just because I live in a small town on the East Coast but it's brutal out here in the sticks. It's gotten to the point where if someone asks what I do for work, I just say "computer stuff" and wave my hands around like I'm typing on an imaginary keyboard. It's vague and odd enough that there aren't any follow-ups or rebuffs.
- nixpulvis 2y ago
  I do the same thing out here on the west coast if I'm at a bar or whatever. But I think the hatred would be less if the average person actually felt like we were providing value proportional to our salaries, not just having salaries proportional to our intelligence. They also do not accurately understand the cost of keeping things running, which is a problem not isolated to tech. EDIT: wow I'm a special kind of dyslexic tonight. Got east and west mixed up. I live in Boston roflmao. I was picturing you living in northern cali or something >.<

throwaway1625 2y ago

It may be that software development is less gatekeeped than other white collar jobs. No degree, no certification to get started. Thus seen as "lazy". Paid for sitting on your ass. Or it may just be the high school mentality carried over into adulthood. In other words envy. The "dorks" are supposed to stay miserable. Not do what they like and earn good money from it. No surprise it's seen different from being a founder or a manager. Our culture respects these occupations more. They may be in "tech" but they are for sure not the "lazy dorks" the developers are.

jarsin 2y ago

Yeah it ruined numerous relationships in my life. My brother in law turned into a total luddite and liar due to my tech career. He foams at the mouth with stories about Indian's replacing us all. I've thought a lot about it and I believe it's because tech is one of the few careers that has a ton of freedom. In normal job markets we can switch companies easily. We can go raise money and start our own companies etc. Most other careers are do x, y, z then you might have your choice of 1 or 2 employers that you then are mostly stuck working for. I think a lot of people are very threatened by that freedom.

nixpulvis 2y ago
I want to live in a world where tech workers aren't the only people with this freedom. How can I as a software engineer by trade help make this world is the question? The talent pool would be improved if not everyone felt they had to become a techie just to live a comfortable life. Though I will say the resurgence in interest in the trades is a good sign, even if it also often comes with a certain rejection from education in general... Idk, lots of big problems and questions here. P.S. I'm sorry your brother can't be happier for the good things in your life.
- jarsin 2y ago
  I grew up in a homebuilder family and I saw enough as a teenager on job sites to know that the trades are way more screwed up than people think. Very tough getting your foot in the door with an honest builder as a plumber etc. There are so many barriers and tons of nepotism in the trades. I'm sure its much worse today with all the wall st builders dominating the game. You can't even buy lots in the master planned communities sprouting up everywhere unless you can build out an entire subdivision.
  - elzbardico 2y ago
    Nepotism. Cut-throath and a lot of time dishonest competition, life-long health issues. People who haven't come from blue-collar families tend to see the trades through rosy glasses. There's a reason my father worked like a horse so I could study. And while I am pretty competent with manual labor, it would have completely killed him if I followed his foot-steps.

n_ary 2y ago

I would associate these hatred manufactured by “influencers” on social media. Try checking out the fantasy/lies they constantly peddle. It is natural for a normal person to feel hatred when someone putting 5% effort and making google L6 salary somehow(honestly, I don’t even know where these influencers make such salary). While I can say a lot of things, see if you can look at some of these influencer videos/reels on normal people’s timeline, the content is bizarre and goes maximum effort to garner envy, by reducing the entire profession into “learn to code and make millions”. For you/me, we recognize this bs immediately, but for normal people, it is painful when you see that someone is making 350k+ and having time to push out reels all day while also travelling and collecting sports cars/bikes and promoting bill gates/jeff bezos revenue generation per hour. I am unsure if I ever saw such bizarre influencer behavior of other professions.

rsynnott 2y ago

> You are now trying to start a startup with only an AI writing the software. You are in tech! But, since he can't read or write code and just delegates to an AI Oh, yeah, that’ll go well.

elzbardico 2y ago

Those people even have a name for us: The Laptop Class

Zanfa 2y ago

> In my experience, a lot of the talk about AI making engineers obsolete is coming from people that have some odd, deep-seated hated towards SWEs. I’m not convinced it’s hate, but a general misunderstanding of what a SWE does. If you haven’t spent a long time doing it, you might be under the impression it’s mostly about producing lines of code, not trying to figure out what the ticket says should to be done, what can be done and what actually needs to be done and who’s the person(s) that might have the answers. Writing code is the easy part.

aprilthird2021 2y ago

It's the pay. People know it's a high paying profession that nerds do, and that makes them mad. Similar kind of thing for people who work in finance