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If it was "born from unhappiness with the status quo" why not join forces with Void Linux?

by mrbluecoat 2y ago

MaximilianEmel 2y ago
The creator used to be a Void contributor.
- LeFantome 2y ago
  The were the PPC maintainer. Which is why PPC is a tier one arch for Chimera Linux from the start.
  - rbanffy 2y ago
    Interestingly enough there are almost zero reasonable PPC computers one can get.
    - teruakohatu 2y ago
      At the PPC prices, you got to have a really good reason to want a PPC desktop. The TalosII cost nearly $10k for the base 2X 4-core Power9 CPU version, and another $5k to upgrade to the 22-core CPU version. https://www.raptorcs.com/content/TL2WK2/intro.html https://www.raptorcs.com/content/TL2WK2/intro.html
- mrbluecoat 2y ago
  I see, thanks. https://chimera-linux.org/docs/faq#what-is-the-distros-relation-to-void-linux https://chimera-linux.org/docs/faq#what-is-the-distros-relat...
LeFantome 2y ago
Void Linux is part of the status quo they were unhappy with. Chimera Linux started off as a rewrite of the Void source packaging system. One of the complaints was using shell scripts for package templates. Chimera cports uses Python. Cports builds the binary packages (for apk 3).
- rollcat 2y ago
  TBH depending on Python also isn't the best choice - it has become a huge and complex language, goes as far as optionally embedding another full language (Tcl, for Tkinter), all the async stuff, kitchen sink standard library, etc. I don't even know how much effort it would require to bootstrap. I would personally go with something like Lua - small, trivial to embed, multiple implementations to pick from, etc. It would fit exactly where the shell falls short.
  - q66 2y ago
    it's absolutely the kitchen sink standard library and "complex" language that makes it worth using, because 1) it means no additional dependencies and 2) the language is expressive enough to let the template syntax remain simple and well-abstracted have you ever tried bootstrapping python? because it's really not a big deal (the only hard dependencies are a C compiler, libffi, and zlib, though distros also add libedit or readline, expat, sqlite, bzip2, xz, and openssl, all trivial dependencies present in more or less any system); tkinter is pretty much always compiled and packaged separately meanwhile with lua you'd need many additional modules, and the templates would be verbose and far less readable a non-exhaustive list of stuff python provides that would need to be provided separately: 1) subprocess management 2) path parsing (and normalization, manipulation, etc.) 3) various filesystem operations 4) shell command lexing 5) globs and fnmatch patterns 6) json 7) date/time handling 8) filesystem advisory locks 9) temporary file handling 10) http client (for sources fetching without external subprocess) 11) termios and ptys (for isolation of controlling terminal) 12) regex 13) hashing 14) topological graph sorting 15) cmdline argument parsing 16) readline functionality 17) thread/task pools and so on and so on
    - hedora 2y ago
      Have you ever tried upgrading python on a machine with a large codebase that you need to maintain?
      - q66 2y ago
        sure, in fact i updated an entire distro to a new python major version several times cbuild started iirc with python 3.8, currently it requires at least 3.12 due to some features (it will stay on that minimum for a while, though newer versions are always supported), updating it has always been seamless though

If it was "born from unhappiness with the status quo" why not join forces with Void Linux?

MaximilianEmel 2y ago

The creator used to be a Void contributor.

LeFantome 2y ago
The were the PPC maintainer. Which is why PPC is a tier one arch for Chimera Linux from the start.
- rbanffy 2y ago
  Interestingly enough there are almost zero reasonable PPC computers one can get.
  - teruakohatu 2y ago
    At the PPC prices, you got to have a really good reason to want a PPC desktop. The TalosII cost nearly $10k for the base 2X 4-core Power9 CPU version, and another $5k to upgrade to the 22-core CPU version. https://www.raptorcs.com/content/TL2WK2/intro.html https://www.raptorcs.com/content/TL2WK2/intro.html
mrbluecoat 2y ago
I see, thanks. https://chimera-linux.org/docs/faq#what-is-the-distros-relation-to-void-linux https://chimera-linux.org/docs/faq#what-is-the-distros-relat...

LeFantome 2y ago

Void Linux is part of the status quo they were unhappy with. Chimera Linux started off as a rewrite of the Void source packaging system. One of the complaints was using shell scripts for package templates. Chimera cports uses Python. Cports builds the binary packages (for apk 3).

rollcat 2y ago
TBH depending on Python also isn't the best choice - it has become a huge and complex language, goes as far as optionally embedding another full language (Tcl, for Tkinter), all the async stuff, kitchen sink standard library, etc. I don't even know how much effort it would require to bootstrap. I would personally go with something like Lua - small, trivial to embed, multiple implementations to pick from, etc. It would fit exactly where the shell falls short.
- q66 2y ago
  it's absolutely the kitchen sink standard library and "complex" language that makes it worth using, because 1) it means no additional dependencies and 2) the language is expressive enough to let the template syntax remain simple and well-abstracted have you ever tried bootstrapping python? because it's really not a big deal (the only hard dependencies are a C compiler, libffi, and zlib, though distros also add libedit or readline, expat, sqlite, bzip2, xz, and openssl, all trivial dependencies present in more or less any system); tkinter is pretty much always compiled and packaged separately meanwhile with lua you'd need many additional modules, and the templates would be verbose and far less readable a non-exhaustive list of stuff python provides that would need to be provided separately: 1) subprocess management 2) path parsing (and normalization, manipulation, etc.) 3) various filesystem operations 4) shell command lexing 5) globs and fnmatch patterns 6) json 7) date/time handling 8) filesystem advisory locks 9) temporary file handling 10) http client (for sources fetching without external subprocess) 11) termios and ptys (for isolation of controlling terminal) 12) regex 13) hashing 14) topological graph sorting 15) cmdline argument parsing 16) readline functionality 17) thread/task pools and so on and so on
  - hedora 2y ago
    Have you ever tried upgrading python on a machine with a large codebase that you need to maintain?
    - q66 2y ago
      sure, in fact i updated an entire distro to a new python major version several times cbuild started iirc with python 3.8, currently it requires at least 3.12 due to some features (it will stay on that minimum for a while, though newer versions are always supported), updating it has always been seamless though