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"Emotional support networks among men shrink by 50% between the ages of 30 and 90, reflecting an average decrease from two to one emotional support providers"

"Emotional support networks among men shrink by 50% between the ages of 30 and 90, reflecting an average decrease from two to one emotional support providers" Or, to rephrase, "Men grow up with an average of two emotional support providers and lose one in mid to late adulthood"

jfengel 2y ago
Any idea how many women have? The form of this study was specific to men and very long-running, so I don't know where you'd get comparable data. Still, it would be interesting to take a stab at it. Is it 2? 1? 10?
- bitwize 2y ago
  Unlike men, women tend seek out emotional support networks as a matter of course. There's probably some reduction as they age, but it's probably from like, the entire glee club to their husband, kids, five or six girls they keep up with from high school and the neighbor lady. A particularly gregarious woman like my wife can grow her support network. This is definitely an area meriting more research.
  - kelseyfrog 2y ago
    As a trans women, I have a unique perspective on how gender impacts social relations having lived life in each of the two worlds. Like commenters above mention, emotional support is table stakes in friendship among women. It is a kinder, gentler world - the kind of world you perhaps remember growing up in. That world still exists, but it's typically not accessible to men once they reach adulthood. How could men access the world of emotional support? By disassociating the idea of gender and emotional support. Growing up in the 90s and 2000s, I remember emotional vulnerability being associated with homosexuality - it was "gay" for men to be emotionally vulnerable with eachother, typically leaving men with women[spouses] or family members as their only source of emotional support. The way out is decouple these two things, to un-"gay" emotional vulnerability between men. What does it look like? Checking in on friends, learning to open up yourself, increasing emotional intelligence, learning how to hold space and reflectively listen. Not trying to solve people's problems when what they want is to be heard. All of these skills and norms exist within feminine spaces as a matter of course and when folks say "putting in the work" it means learning to employ these things. It means that being emotionally vulnerable doesn't imply a sexual advancement. It means enforcing that as a reality.
    - watwut 2y ago
      What is emotional vulnerability?
      - kelseyfrog 2y ago
        It's a state of being emotionally exposed in way that includes uncertainty. Like sharing emotions when you're unsure how the other person will respond. In this case, it might mean opening up more to an acquaintance as a way to develop a friendship but being unsure how they would receive that or reciprocate.
      - pessimizer 2y ago
        Female stereotyping.
      - n4r9 2y ago
        It's simmilar to physical vulnerability but with emotions. Displaying emotions in such a way that someone could - if they were so inclined - emotionally exploit and attack you. For example, opening up about your greatest fears can open you up to ridicule or someone pranking you.
    - clockworksoul 2y ago
      That's a very valuable insight. Thank you.
    - meiraleal 2y ago
      [flagged]
    - lazide 2y ago
      Personally, I’ve also seen those emotional support networks used to destroy and manipulate women within them by other women within them. And to target the men ‘attached’ through the women within those networks. Under the guise of emotional support.
      - kelseyfrog 2y ago
        Setting healthy boundaries is usually the antidote to manipulation and sometimes that entails no longer engaging with that person or group. I'm curious to hear more about your story. It sounds full of valuable lessons.
- Spivak 2y ago
  I don't feel very exceptional in terms of my social network among my peers and I would say probably 20-25. I think it mostly comes from emotional support being pretty much table stakes for female friendships. I feel like most "biological" explanations are bunk but like if you're gonna be friends you're gonna be friends when you're on your period and going through it.
- iterance 2y ago
  Anecdotally I'd say I can't imagine living with like, one or two people I turn to for emotional support. Would be a nightmare. I know probably 20 or 30 people I could turn to if I needed something, even just to vent. I wouldn't even necessarily say I'm that close with most of them. It's sort of just... table stakes?
  - sosuke 2y ago
    Imagine three other possibilities: You have a dozen people who would give you emotional support but you don't ask for any because you aren't sure you could give emotional support in return. You have a dozen people you think might give you emotional support but you don't want to burden them with your problems. You have a dozen people that would give you emotional support, maybe once, but you are too afraid to burn the single emotional support coupon until its more important.
    - em-bee 2y ago
      i have one friend that i can trust to be able to talk to with challenges in my life and especially with challenges in my relationship. i know that because he has been open and sharing many of his personal challenges for by now decades with a group of friends that i am privileged to have been invited to. for everyone else it is pretty much like you describe. i have probably over time met people from each of those categories. and some of them may actually have turned into real friends that i could trust like this one friend above. but moving around meant that we didn't keep in touch. (and it's worth mentioning that almost none of them are from my home, so without moving around i would not have even met them)
    - iterance 2y ago
      Yeah, that makes sense. I guess I just don't worry about it that much these days. What you're describing - the fear of overburdening or burning bridges, the uncertainty about what I can give back - I dunno. I had that, at one point, too. A LONG time ago. Middle school, high school maybe. But many years of being shown I can count on the people around me, and that I'm better at giving support in kind than I think, has made it less of a serious worry. Of course there are limits, and they have to be respected. "Do not discuss rope in the house of a hanged man." But that's why there's so much breadth. If I can't talk about it with my partner, or my close friends are involved, I can almost always find someone willing to hear me out. Someone it's appropriate to go to support for.
jasoneckert 2y ago
And with such a small sample size, the variance will be high. For example, I estimate that my own emotional support network quadrupled from about 1-2 before the age of 30 to 5-8 after the age of 40.
cauliflower2718 2y ago
Is this to be interpreted as most men have two parents, and in adulthood one of them dies? Or, men have a parent they are close with plus a spouse, and then the parent dies?
- seneca 2y ago
  I interpreted it as the latter being the most common pattern. I'm sure it differs fairly widely though.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

jfengel 2y ago

Any idea how many women have? The form of this study was specific to men and very long-running, so I don't know where you'd get comparable data. Still, it would be interesting to take a stab at it. Is it 2? 1? 10?

bitwize 2y ago
Unlike men, women tend seek out emotional support networks as a matter of course. There's probably some reduction as they age, but it's probably from like, the entire glee club to their husband, kids, five or six girls they keep up with from high school and the neighbor lady. A particularly gregarious woman like my wife can grow her support network. This is definitely an area meriting more research.
- kelseyfrog 2y ago
  As a trans women, I have a unique perspective on how gender impacts social relations having lived life in each of the two worlds. Like commenters above mention, emotional support is table stakes in friendship among women. It is a kinder, gentler world - the kind of world you perhaps remember growing up in. That world still exists, but it's typically not accessible to men once they reach adulthood. How could men access the world of emotional support? By disassociating the idea of gender and emotional support. Growing up in the 90s and 2000s, I remember emotional vulnerability being associated with homosexuality - it was "gay" for men to be emotionally vulnerable with eachother, typically leaving men with women[spouses] or family members as their only source of emotional support. The way out is decouple these two things, to un-"gay" emotional vulnerability between men. What does it look like? Checking in on friends, learning to open up yourself, increasing emotional intelligence, learning how to hold space and reflectively listen. Not trying to solve people's problems when what they want is to be heard. All of these skills and norms exist within feminine spaces as a matter of course and when folks say "putting in the work" it means learning to employ these things. It means that being emotionally vulnerable doesn't imply a sexual advancement. It means enforcing that as a reality.
  - watwut 2y ago
    What is emotional vulnerability?
    - kelseyfrog 2y ago
      It's a state of being emotionally exposed in way that includes uncertainty. Like sharing emotions when you're unsure how the other person will respond. In this case, it might mean opening up more to an acquaintance as a way to develop a friendship but being unsure how they would receive that or reciprocate.
    - pessimizer 2y ago
      Female stereotyping.
    - n4r9 2y ago
      It's simmilar to physical vulnerability but with emotions. Displaying emotions in such a way that someone could - if they were so inclined - emotionally exploit and attack you. For example, opening up about your greatest fears can open you up to ridicule or someone pranking you.
  - clockworksoul 2y ago
    That's a very valuable insight. Thank you.
  - meiraleal 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - lazide 2y ago
    Personally, I’ve also seen those emotional support networks used to destroy and manipulate women within them by other women within them. And to target the men ‘attached’ through the women within those networks. Under the guise of emotional support.
    - kelseyfrog 2y ago
      Setting healthy boundaries is usually the antidote to manipulation and sometimes that entails no longer engaging with that person or group. I'm curious to hear more about your story. It sounds full of valuable lessons.
Spivak 2y ago
I don't feel very exceptional in terms of my social network among my peers and I would say probably 20-25. I think it mostly comes from emotional support being pretty much table stakes for female friendships. I feel like most "biological" explanations are bunk but like if you're gonna be friends you're gonna be friends when you're on your period and going through it.
iterance 2y ago
Anecdotally I'd say I can't imagine living with like, one or two people I turn to for emotional support. Would be a nightmare. I know probably 20 or 30 people I could turn to if I needed something, even just to vent. I wouldn't even necessarily say I'm that close with most of them. It's sort of just... table stakes?
- sosuke 2y ago
  Imagine three other possibilities: You have a dozen people who would give you emotional support but you don't ask for any because you aren't sure you could give emotional support in return. You have a dozen people you think might give you emotional support but you don't want to burden them with your problems. You have a dozen people that would give you emotional support, maybe once, but you are too afraid to burn the single emotional support coupon until its more important.
  - em-bee 2y ago
    i have one friend that i can trust to be able to talk to with challenges in my life and especially with challenges in my relationship. i know that because he has been open and sharing many of his personal challenges for by now decades with a group of friends that i am privileged to have been invited to. for everyone else it is pretty much like you describe. i have probably over time met people from each of those categories. and some of them may actually have turned into real friends that i could trust like this one friend above. but moving around meant that we didn't keep in touch. (and it's worth mentioning that almost none of them are from my home, so without moving around i would not have even met them)
  - iterance 2y ago
    Yeah, that makes sense. I guess I just don't worry about it that much these days. What you're describing - the fear of overburdening or burning bridges, the uncertainty about what I can give back - I dunno. I had that, at one point, too. A LONG time ago. Middle school, high school maybe. But many years of being shown I can count on the people around me, and that I'm better at giving support in kind than I think, has made it less of a serious worry. Of course there are limits, and they have to be respected. "Do not discuss rope in the house of a hanged man." But that's why there's so much breadth. If I can't talk about it with my partner, or my close friends are involved, I can almost always find someone willing to hear me out. Someone it's appropriate to go to support for.

jasoneckert 2y ago

And with such a small sample size, the variance will be high. For example, I estimate that my own emotional support network quadrupled from about 1-2 before the age of 30 to 5-8 after the age of 40.

cauliflower2718 2y ago

Is this to be interpreted as most men have two parents, and in adulthood one of them dies? Or, men have a parent they are close with plus a spouse, and then the parent dies?

seneca 2y ago
I interpreted it as the latter being the most common pattern. I'm sure it differs fairly widely though.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]