5 ms·

ADL condemns Musk's Nazi "jokes" after salute controversy

24 points by zfg 2y ago

GGerome 2y ago
He saluted like a nazi twice, not once. Thus that could not be considered awkward...
- basementcat 2y ago
  What concerned me more was the audience who cheered and applauded the salute. That said, I’m not up to date on the latest social trends.
  - CamperBob2 2y ago
    What concerns me is that this long rightward swing is happening in the absence of any serious crises. When the OG Nazis came to power, Germany was in terrible shape. They had lost a catastrophic war and were still being ground under the victors' boot heels, at least in the citizenry's own estimation. Never mind 12% inflation, it went as high as 12 digits in the years leading up to 1933. It's hard to blame them for latching onto someone promising to "Make Germany Great Again," and it's not surprising that they didn't feel an incentive to quibble over the details. In the past election, US voters treated the price of eggs as an emergency of similar scope. That's about all that was going on. Eggs. Eggs were too expensive. They're even more expensive now, of course, but try telling Fox News addicts that. Can you imagine what things would be like in America -- the quality of the leaders we'd be electing -- if we were facing what Germany faced in the 1930s?
    - krapp 2y ago
      It was never about eggs. I think that it's partly the manifestation of a cultural trauma response to Obama's election, and mostly white, mostly rural Americans feeling alienated and misdirecting their anger at the effects of globalism and their loss of demographic and cultural hegemony. That aspect of it, at least, was well documented as far back as 2016. Now we've got Musk and the whole neo-reactionary dark enlightenment set cranking it up to 11, because they see a path to power. A lot of the crisis is manufactured. Remember we live in a post-truth age - many people construct their subjective realities from platforms which have been feeding them conspiracy theories and right-wing propaganda for years. They believe Biden created COVID with the CCP. They believe hordes of rapists and killers have been swarming over the southern border. They believe the purpose of DEI and "wokeness" is white male genocide. They have been convinced that America is in the same position that Germans believed they were in was prior to the Nazis, having soaked up so many neo-nazi memes and so much agitprop specifically to make it seem reasonable when the "Nazis" do take over.
CamperBob2 2y ago
This sort of thing is usually a distraction... in this case, distraction from a raft of rushed, questionable executive orders and paralyzingly-incompetent cabinet nominations. The jokes feel like a half-hearted acknowledgement that his salutes didn't raise the noise floor enough. Musk is showing Trump his willingness to play the kayfabe game. It is a rational move on his part, sadly, because his businesses are so critically-dependent on a good working relationship with Federal power. He probably isn't really a Nazi. That would imply that he considers himself to be part of something larger than himself. As Vonnegut said, though, we should be careful about what we pretend to be, because that's what we tend to become.
- Zigurd 2y ago
  That's a lot of analysis to excuse the overt use of a Nazi symbol/gesture. Most of the time things are as they appear to be.
  - CamperBob2 2y ago
    If you think I'm "excusing" it, or that I'm questioning whether he really meant to perform Nazi salutes, then I'm not doing a good job making my point. Still, I'm trying to lend as much good faith to the topic as I can manage. Bottom line, if he were actually interested in Nazism as an ethos, I don't think he would publicize it. Not at this stage, anyway. If you could actually ask Fr. Occam what he thinks about Musk, he'd probably say, "He just gets off on shit-stirring, that's all." In that respect, he has found a kindred spirit in Trump, and he rationally sees an alliance as the only way to keep his business interests healthy over the next several years. Steve Bannon's dictum still holds sway, even if the man himself is on the outs with Trump: "The real opposition is the media. And the way to deal with them is to flood the zone with shit.” Say what you will about Musk, he's really good at that.
    - Zigurd 2y ago
      Based on the solid wall of text I see that you continue to admire Steve bannon's technique. Good job.

24 points by zfg 2y ago

GGerome 2y ago

He saluted like a nazi twice, not once. Thus that could not be considered awkward...

basementcat 2y ago
What concerned me more was the audience who cheered and applauded the salute. That said, I’m not up to date on the latest social trends.
- CamperBob2 2y ago
  What concerns me is that this long rightward swing is happening in the absence of any serious crises. When the OG Nazis came to power, Germany was in terrible shape. They had lost a catastrophic war and were still being ground under the victors' boot heels, at least in the citizenry's own estimation. Never mind 12% inflation, it went as high as 12 digits in the years leading up to 1933. It's hard to blame them for latching onto someone promising to "Make Germany Great Again," and it's not surprising that they didn't feel an incentive to quibble over the details. In the past election, US voters treated the price of eggs as an emergency of similar scope. That's about all that was going on. Eggs. Eggs were too expensive. They're even more expensive now, of course, but try telling Fox News addicts that. Can you imagine what things would be like in America -- the quality of the leaders we'd be electing -- if we were facing what Germany faced in the 1930s?
  - krapp 2y ago
    It was never about eggs. I think that it's partly the manifestation of a cultural trauma response to Obama's election, and mostly white, mostly rural Americans feeling alienated and misdirecting their anger at the effects of globalism and their loss of demographic and cultural hegemony. That aspect of it, at least, was well documented as far back as 2016. Now we've got Musk and the whole neo-reactionary dark enlightenment set cranking it up to 11, because they see a path to power. A lot of the crisis is manufactured. Remember we live in a post-truth age - many people construct their subjective realities from platforms which have been feeding them conspiracy theories and right-wing propaganda for years. They believe Biden created COVID with the CCP. They believe hordes of rapists and killers have been swarming over the southern border. They believe the purpose of DEI and "wokeness" is white male genocide. They have been convinced that America is in the same position that Germans believed they were in was prior to the Nazis, having soaked up so many neo-nazi memes and so much agitprop specifically to make it seem reasonable when the "Nazis" do take over.

CamperBob2 2y ago

This sort of thing is usually a distraction... in this case, distraction from a raft of rushed, questionable executive orders and paralyzingly-incompetent cabinet nominations. The jokes feel like a half-hearted acknowledgement that his salutes didn't raise the noise floor enough. Musk is showing Trump his willingness to play the kayfabe game. It is a rational move on his part, sadly, because his businesses are so critically-dependent on a good working relationship with Federal power. He probably isn't really a Nazi. That would imply that he considers himself to be part of something larger than himself. As Vonnegut said, though, we should be careful about what we pretend to be, because that's what we tend to become.

Zigurd 2y ago
That's a lot of analysis to excuse the overt use of a Nazi symbol/gesture. Most of the time things are as they appear to be.
- CamperBob2 2y ago
  If you think I'm "excusing" it, or that I'm questioning whether he really meant to perform Nazi salutes, then I'm not doing a good job making my point. Still, I'm trying to lend as much good faith to the topic as I can manage. Bottom line, if he were actually interested in Nazism as an ethos, I don't think he would publicize it. Not at this stage, anyway. If you could actually ask Fr. Occam what he thinks about Musk, he'd probably say, "He just gets off on shit-stirring, that's all." In that respect, he has found a kindred spirit in Trump, and he rationally sees an alliance as the only way to keep his business interests healthy over the next several years. Steve Bannon's dictum still holds sway, even if the man himself is on the outs with Trump: "The real opposition is the media. And the way to deal with them is to flood the zone with shit.” Say what you will about Musk, he's really good at that.
  - Zigurd 2y ago
    Based on the solid wall of text I see that you continue to admire Steve bannon's technique. Good job.