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Defense contractors used to be the stodgy old companies that most in the tech industry looked down on. It's been interesting to watch the slow shift in the vall

Defense contractors used to be the stodgy old companies that most in the tech industry looked down on. It's been interesting to watch the slow shift in the valley towards widespread acceptance and even wholehearted support for the military industrial complex.

whatshisface 2y ago
Defense companies are documentation-driven and procedure-driven ("stodgy") because they are government contractors, and there have actually always been a lot of them in SV. There is also a precedent in the tech company idea as a sales and marketing tool aimed at the government - in Theranos of all examples.
- Terr_ 2y ago
  > they are government contractors It's not just a kind of subculture though, there are practical reasons: "Defense" products have often meant large batches of durable complicated equipment (e.g. tanks, planes) where your clients plan to have them ready for service for the next X decades and really do require their own copies of good repair-manuals that a non-employee can use, as well as some confidence that the supply-chain is both secure now and can also continue to exist for those X decades. Even if all you're doing is providing the software for the Big Mech Suit, you can't dodge those requirements since it's part of the same set of product-needs. This is a stark contrast to, say, an "Uber for Cats on the Blockchain with AI" SaaS site the lives on ad-revenue and no end-user support.
  - whatshisface 2y ago
    They're not so great at providing the repair manuals this century, in fact a lot of the contracts say that only the contractor can repair the equipment. A lot of helicopter trips are made to aircraft carriers as a result.
    - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
      It's pretty clear that we need not just a law but an actual constitutional amendment requiring them to go back to the old way.
TechDebtDevin 2y ago
Its not support. They quite literally are the military industrial complex
- perihelions 2y ago
  Silicon Valley's defense industry was the *first* tech sector there, and (arguably) the primary reason the rest of tech grew up in that specific place, as an offshoot of it. https://steveblank.com/secret-history/ https://steveblank.com/secret-history/ ("The Secret History of Silicon Valley") https://hn.algolia.com/?query=%22Secret%22%20History%20of%20Silicon%20Valley&sort=byPopularity&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?query=%22Secret%22%20History%20of%20...
asdff 2y ago
I think quite a bit of work is done in the old guards lands around DC still. Offices are still being built due to SCIF requirements obviating any real work from home movement. Datacenters are going up alongside them. It is a bizzaro world in Northern Virginia and other such parts around DC. A spotless 1990s idea of a suburban utopia surrounded by data centers simulating nuclear armageddon and defense contractors offices designing that armageddon for a profit in the meanwhile, thoroughly intermixed with the strip malls and identical tract housing and neighborhood trails full of joggers and strollers.
xvector 2y ago
They are still those stodgy old companies and SV still looks down on them for good reason. If you work at one you'll quickly realize how hard it is to get anything done because no one gives a fuck at those companies. It's pure rest and vest. Now the SV-type defense companies - those are a whole different ball games.
taurknaut 2y ago
> It's been interesting to watch the slow shift in the valley towards widespread acceptance and even wholehearted support for the military industrial complex. Damn and here I thought the valley (and valley culture) was the beating heart of the MIC this entire time.
- AlotOfReading 2y ago
  There was a period where a large enough number of people had serious objections to the entire idea that having Raytheon or LLNL on your resume wasn't much different than having a porn or crypto company on it today. Executives would go to hippie spiritual retreats like Esalen and pay lip service to the idea of positive social transformation, invite random spiritual leaders to conferences, and monologue about their deep commitments to hippie ideals. Much of that was BS of course, but I'm just commenting on the shift.
tdeck 2y ago
I fear it will only accelerate as all the other hype+money trains continue to peter out.
tim333 2y ago
Ukraine probably made a difference. It's been a while since there's been that sort of war where the western 'defence' industry is actually defending against an attacker as opposed to say bombing Iraq.

whatshisface 2y ago

Defense companies are documentation-driven and procedure-driven ("stodgy") because they are government contractors, and there have actually always been a lot of them in SV. There is also a precedent in the tech company idea as a sales and marketing tool aimed at the government - in Theranos of all examples.

Terr_ 2y ago
> they are government contractors It's not just a kind of subculture though, there are practical reasons: "Defense" products have often meant large batches of durable complicated equipment (e.g. tanks, planes) where your clients plan to have them ready for service for the next X decades and really do require their own copies of good repair-manuals that a non-employee can use, as well as some confidence that the supply-chain is both secure now and can also continue to exist for those X decades. Even if all you're doing is providing the software for the Big Mech Suit, you can't dodge those requirements since it's part of the same set of product-needs. This is a stark contrast to, say, an "Uber for Cats on the Blockchain with AI" SaaS site the lives on ad-revenue and no end-user support.
- whatshisface 2y ago
  They're not so great at providing the repair manuals this century, in fact a lot of the contracts say that only the contractor can repair the equipment. A lot of helicopter trips are made to aircraft carriers as a result.
  - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
    It's pretty clear that we need not just a law but an actual constitutional amendment requiring them to go back to the old way.

TechDebtDevin 2y ago

Its not support. They quite literally are the military industrial complex

perihelions 2y ago
Silicon Valley's defense industry was the *first* tech sector there, and (arguably) the primary reason the rest of tech grew up in that specific place, as an offshoot of it. https://steveblank.com/secret-history/ https://steveblank.com/secret-history/ ("The Secret History of Silicon Valley") https://hn.algolia.com/?query=%22Secret%22%20History%20of%20Silicon%20Valley&sort=byPopularity&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?query=%22Secret%22%20History%20of%20...

asdff 2y ago

I think quite a bit of work is done in the old guards lands around DC still. Offices are still being built due to SCIF requirements obviating any real work from home movement. Datacenters are going up alongside them. It is a bizzaro world in Northern Virginia and other such parts around DC. A spotless 1990s idea of a suburban utopia surrounded by data centers simulating nuclear armageddon and defense contractors offices designing that armageddon for a profit in the meanwhile, thoroughly intermixed with the strip malls and identical tract housing and neighborhood trails full of joggers and strollers.

xvector 2y ago

They are still those stodgy old companies and SV still looks down on them for good reason. If you work at one you'll quickly realize how hard it is to get anything done because no one gives a fuck at those companies. It's pure rest and vest. Now the SV-type defense companies - those are a whole different ball games.

taurknaut 2y ago

> It's been interesting to watch the slow shift in the valley towards widespread acceptance and even wholehearted support for the military industrial complex. Damn and here I thought the valley (and valley culture) was the beating heart of the MIC this entire time.

AlotOfReading 2y ago
There was a period where a large enough number of people had serious objections to the entire idea that having Raytheon or LLNL on your resume wasn't much different than having a porn or crypto company on it today. Executives would go to hippie spiritual retreats like Esalen and pay lip service to the idea of positive social transformation, invite random spiritual leaders to conferences, and monologue about their deep commitments to hippie ideals. Much of that was BS of course, but I'm just commenting on the shift.

tdeck 2y ago

I fear it will only accelerate as all the other hype+money trains continue to peter out.

tim333 2y ago

Ukraine probably made a difference. It's been a while since there's been that sort of war where the western 'defence' industry is actually defending against an attacker as opposed to say bombing Iraq.