4 ms·

> more than 20 years to get here due to environmental reviews How thorough were they being? > We (as Californians) have GOT to do better than this! We pay mo

> more than 20 years to get here due to environmental reviews How thorough were they being? > We (as Californians) have GOT to do better than this! We pay more taxes than anyone else in the country. /We/ are doing our part. The administration needs to be held accountable. > We have got to cut the red tape and properly fund projects. We need to light a fire under the administration and someone needs to take a wrecking ball through the state assembly.

tbrownaw 2y ago
> /We/ are doing our part. The administration needs to be held accountable. ... By the electorate, who clearly aren't doing their part if things like this keep happening.
- timewizard 2y ago
  Other than going down to the assembly and yelling what do you propose? We could call the representatives, recall the representatives, create a ballot measure, or vote differently next time.
  - Dalewyn 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - quantified 2y ago
      Do you mean they won't at least check your professed name and address?
      - Dalewyn 2y ago
        Nope. It is literally illegal[1] to ask for identification in California. In fairness it was ambiguous[2] before, but in practice California has never asked for identification and this was made clear and official policy from the 2024 elections (note: I am not aware if there are any lawsuits that have blocked enforcement of this law, I no longer reside in CA and do not keep close track of their goings-on). And before anyone says "But registering to vote requires identification!": Yes, you're correct, but remember that asking for a voter's identity is illegal. No one can confirm whether a "voter" is actually a voter, it is illegal to check. Registering to vote is irrelevant. My personal experiences voting in California also never involved being asked for identification, that includes "name and address". Never. None. I went in and voted, nobody cared whether I could because they didn't or couldn't. For the record: I'm an American citizen (born and raised, not that that's relevant), I am registered to vote, I am proud to vote, and I am happy to present to any law enforcement or election official my state Driver's License to prove my residency and my US Passport to prove my citizenship upon demand. I question the narrative that any part of any of this is controversial for ensuring the sanctity of the right to vote and holding free and fair elections. [1]: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240SB1174 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtm... [2]: https://perkinscoie.com/insights/update/new-california-law-prohibits-localities-imposing-their-own-voter-id-requirements https://perkinscoie.com/insights/update/new-california-law-p...
        saagarjha 2y ago
        Surely they can just check your ballot and see if you are registered to vote when counting it?
        Dalewyn 2y ago
        That's the theory and in most other states I would agree, but this is California. The priority is in getting votes period, not getting voters. Once a ballot gets past the initial verification stage, ballots are separated from the voter and it becomes impossible to link them back again (ballots have no identifiers on them). Given California's priorities, I have no confidence in the integrity of their ballot verification. While I did still vote when I was in California, I was aware I was likely just wasting my time and that the act of voting had symbolic meaning but no practical value. Election integrity is achieved by vetting elections in ways that are immediately obvious and verifiable by the voters, California unfortunately has none of that as a legal policy of the state.
    - NewJazz 2y ago
      This claim is serious, but unsourced and completely nonsensical.
      - Dalewyn 2y ago
        I already sourced it, but if you missed it here it is again: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240SB1174 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtm... * A California Driver's License or Identification Card does not completely demonstrate one's right to vote, it only demonstrates residency. Neither does a Social Security Number, it only demonstrates taxes being levied. You must be a US citizen to vote, but anyone can get any or all of the three mentioned pieces of identification without US citizenship. * Signature verification is of questionable efficacy at best. Most of us here likely agree that signing the back of your credit card in this day and age is hardly secure, why is that different in elections? Recounts also don't matter, because at that point the ballot is separated from the voter (ballots do not have identifying information); recounts cannot remove illegal ballots. * California explicitly refuses asking the hypothetical voter to demonstrate their eligibility; see the cited law again. * The claim that asking for voters to demonstrate their eligibility is disenfranchisment is, as someone who cares about free and fair elections, patented bullshit. * Last is my anecdote, which I doubt needs repeating. I have no trust in Californian election integrity because California does nothing to convince me so.
        NewJazz 2y ago
        I can walk into the polls, ask for a ballot and get one, and then fill it in and deposit it, all without anyone so much as asking who [...] I am. Source for this claim? They have asked my name every time I have voted in person. Social Security Number [...] only demonstrates taxes being levied. Another unsourced claim. The state can, and likely does, check whether the SSN belongs to a citizen or not. Same with state ID, they know whether the ID was issued to a citizen or noncitizen.
  - ungreased0675 2y ago
    Stop re-electing the same people. I vote for someone different in my state’s partisan primaries, because I believe high turnover of elected representatives is beneficial. I may still vote for the incumbent in the general election, but never in the primary.
    - NewJazz 2y ago
      There are term limits in california.

tbrownaw 2y ago

> /We/ are doing our part. The administration needs to be held accountable. ... By the electorate, who clearly aren't doing their part if things like this keep happening.

timewizard 2y ago
Other than going down to the assembly and yelling what do you propose? We could call the representatives, recall the representatives, create a ballot measure, or vote differently next time.
- Dalewyn 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - quantified 2y ago
    Do you mean they won't at least check your professed name and address?
    - Dalewyn 2y ago
      Nope. It is literally illegal[1] to ask for identification in California. In fairness it was ambiguous[2] before, but in practice California has never asked for identification and this was made clear and official policy from the 2024 elections (note: I am not aware if there are any lawsuits that have blocked enforcement of this law, I no longer reside in CA and do not keep close track of their goings-on). And before anyone says "But registering to vote requires identification!": Yes, you're correct, but remember that asking for a voter's identity is illegal. No one can confirm whether a "voter" is actually a voter, it is illegal to check. Registering to vote is irrelevant. My personal experiences voting in California also never involved being asked for identification, that includes "name and address". Never. None. I went in and voted, nobody cared whether I could because they didn't or couldn't. For the record: I'm an American citizen (born and raised, not that that's relevant), I am registered to vote, I am proud to vote, and I am happy to present to any law enforcement or election official my state Driver's License to prove my residency and my US Passport to prove my citizenship upon demand. I question the narrative that any part of any of this is controversial for ensuring the sanctity of the right to vote and holding free and fair elections. [1]: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240SB1174 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtm... [2]: https://perkinscoie.com/insights/update/new-california-law-prohibits-localities-imposing-their-own-voter-id-requirements https://perkinscoie.com/insights/update/new-california-law-p...
      - saagarjha 2y ago
        Surely they can just check your ballot and see if you are registered to vote when counting it?
        Dalewyn 2y ago
        That's the theory and in most other states I would agree, but this is California. The priority is in getting votes period, not getting voters. Once a ballot gets past the initial verification stage, ballots are separated from the voter and it becomes impossible to link them back again (ballots have no identifiers on them). Given California's priorities, I have no confidence in the integrity of their ballot verification. While I did still vote when I was in California, I was aware I was likely just wasting my time and that the act of voting had symbolic meaning but no practical value. Election integrity is achieved by vetting elections in ways that are immediately obvious and verifiable by the voters, California unfortunately has none of that as a legal policy of the state.
  - NewJazz 2y ago
    This claim is serious, but unsourced and completely nonsensical.
    - Dalewyn 2y ago
      I already sourced it, but if you missed it here it is again: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240SB1174 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtm... * A California Driver's License or Identification Card does not completely demonstrate one's right to vote, it only demonstrates residency. Neither does a Social Security Number, it only demonstrates taxes being levied. You must be a US citizen to vote, but anyone can get any or all of the three mentioned pieces of identification without US citizenship. * Signature verification is of questionable efficacy at best. Most of us here likely agree that signing the back of your credit card in this day and age is hardly secure, why is that different in elections? Recounts also don't matter, because at that point the ballot is separated from the voter (ballots do not have identifying information); recounts cannot remove illegal ballots. * California explicitly refuses asking the hypothetical voter to demonstrate their eligibility; see the cited law again. * The claim that asking for voters to demonstrate their eligibility is disenfranchisment is, as someone who cares about free and fair elections, patented bullshit. * Last is my anecdote, which I doubt needs repeating. I have no trust in Californian election integrity because California does nothing to convince me so.
      - NewJazz 2y ago
        I can walk into the polls, ask for a ballot and get one, and then fill it in and deposit it, all without anyone so much as asking who [...] I am. Source for this claim? They have asked my name every time I have voted in person. Social Security Number [...] only demonstrates taxes being levied. Another unsourced claim. The state can, and likely does, check whether the SSN belongs to a citizen or not. Same with state ID, they know whether the ID was issued to a citizen or noncitizen.
- ungreased0675 2y ago
  Stop re-electing the same people. I vote for someone different in my state’s partisan primaries, because I believe high turnover of elected representatives is beneficial. I may still vote for the incumbent in the general election, but never in the primary.
  - NewJazz 2y ago
    There are term limits in california.