Totally agree, though SF is closer to overall NYC density than you'd expect (NYC 29k, SF 18k ppl/sq mi; Manhattan is 73k). I think the Bay Area suburbs are als

Totally agree, though SF is closer to overall NYC density than you'd expect (NYC 29k, SF 18k ppl/sq mi; Manhattan is 73k). I think the Bay Area suburbs are also egregious - e.g. North Berkeley BART station is surrounded by single family homes, even though it's 25min from downtown SF by train.