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Agreed. (and of course you were downvoted here). People love to hold Scandanavia up as an example as how the rest of the world "could be." However, I think that

by sheraz 14y ago

Agreed. (and of course you were downvoted here). People love to hold Scandanavia up as an example as how the rest of the world "could be." However, I think that is such a naive point of view, and one that needs changing. Their populations are too small and lack diversity to make a realistic comparison to the USA or even their larger European neighbors. I usually like Mr. Schriener's work, but this post is a little off.

kmfrk 14y ago
It's always greener on the other side; Denmark is the happiest country in the world (not really); Finland has the best K12 school system in the world (maybe). And so on and so on. There is a lot to be learnt from other countries, and I am sure it's not always easy to say that there are countries that do things better than the United States, but people tend to make it sound as if it's all rainbows and ponies, as soon as you get off the plane in Northern Europe. It's not like they don't have their own problems to wrestle with in areas where the United States does better.
- josephcooney 14y ago
  Can you give an example of where the United States does better?
vetler 14y ago
He's commenting on a BBC article, don't read too much into it. Sure, we Norwegians like to blow our own horn and preach peace and tolerance, and can sometimes be shocked when we travel the world and discover how other people think. It won't stop us from preaching socialism and believing that the world can be a better place, though. Interesting that you make a point about diversity - that was one of the things Breivik was fighting (or multiculturalism, specifically).
MartinCron 14y ago
There's a middle ground between the wholesale Scandinavian worship (of which I have been guilty) and totally insular American exceptionalism (of which I have also been guilty). There are many things that are done differently in other parts of the world, to great success, that we could adapt and learn from.
eshvk 14y ago
You make an excellent point regarding diversity. Being a brown person in America is not easy (During the roughly 25 + flights I have done this year, I have been asked to do a "random" TSA extended check every single time). However, I can easily put this experience in context to other more homogenous countries I have lived in in other continents. The magnitude of the problem makes it excessively hard to make a realistic solution that works well for tiny populations scale well to the diversity and size that America operates in.
jacobr 14y ago
The "lack of diversity" in Scandinavia comes up now and then even on HN, but: In 2010, there were 1.33 million foreign-born residents in Sweden, corresponding to 14.3% of the total population. Of these, 859 000 (9.2%) were born outside the EU and 477 000 (5.1%) were born in another EU Member State. This does not include second or third generation immigrants, nor minorities with a longer presence. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Sweden http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Sweden The number of immigrants in Norway is approximately 550,000. The total "immigrant population", which includes Norwegian-born children to immigrant parents, is 655,170, corresponding to 13.1 percent of the total population (2011). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Norway#Demographic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Norway#Demograph...
- learc83 14y ago
  In the US our foreign born population is roughly similar about 13% foreign born in 2009. However the percent of foreign born people in the US has historically been very high. Wikipedia points immigration to Norway has risen very recently because of it's membership in the European Economic Area. It is entirely possible that united states has issues caused by continued high levels of immigration that Scandinavia has not had time to experience. Since our foreign born populations are similar, adjusting for that shows that when native born Scandinavians and Americans are considered, Scandinavia is much more ethnically/racially homogenous than the United States. Furthermore Scandinavia doesn't have a recent history of institutionalized oppression of a very sizable racial minority. There is still a generation of people alive here who actually lived under forced segregation, and more generations who were raised by them. I'm sure if America was composed only of people who's ancestors came here voluntarily, and who weren't kept as second class citizens for decades, we wouldn't have many of the problems we do.

by sheraz 14y ago

kmfrk 14y ago

It's always greener on the other side; Denmark is the happiest country in the world (not really); Finland has the best K12 school system in the world (maybe). And so on and so on. There is a lot to be learnt from other countries, and I am sure it's not always easy to say that there are countries that do things better than the United States, but people tend to make it sound as if it's all rainbows and ponies, as soon as you get off the plane in Northern Europe. It's not like they don't have their own problems to wrestle with in areas where the United States does better.

josephcooney 14y ago
Can you give an example of where the United States does better?

vetler 14y ago

He's commenting on a BBC article, don't read too much into it. Sure, we Norwegians like to blow our own horn and preach peace and tolerance, and can sometimes be shocked when we travel the world and discover how other people think. It won't stop us from preaching socialism and believing that the world can be a better place, though. Interesting that you make a point about diversity - that was one of the things Breivik was fighting (or multiculturalism, specifically).

MartinCron 14y ago

There's a middle ground between the wholesale Scandinavian worship (of which I have been guilty) and totally insular American exceptionalism (of which I have also been guilty). There are many things that are done differently in other parts of the world, to great success, that we could adapt and learn from.

eshvk 14y ago

You make an excellent point regarding diversity. Being a brown person in America is not easy (During the roughly 25 + flights I have done this year, I have been asked to do a "random" TSA extended check every single time). However, I can easily put this experience in context to other more homogenous countries I have lived in in other continents. The magnitude of the problem makes it excessively hard to make a realistic solution that works well for tiny populations scale well to the diversity and size that America operates in.

jacobr 14y ago

The "lack of diversity" in Scandinavia comes up now and then even on HN, but: In 2010, there were 1.33 million foreign-born residents in Sweden, corresponding to 14.3% of the total population. Of these, 859 000 (9.2%) were born outside the EU and 477 000 (5.1%) were born in another EU Member State. This does not include second or third generation immigrants, nor minorities with a longer presence. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Sweden http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Sweden The number of immigrants in Norway is approximately 550,000. The total "immigrant population", which includes Norwegian-born children to immigrant parents, is 655,170, corresponding to 13.1 percent of the total population (2011). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Norway#Demographic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Norway#Demograph...

learc83 14y ago
In the US our foreign born population is roughly similar about 13% foreign born in 2009. However the percent of foreign born people in the US has historically been very high. Wikipedia points immigration to Norway has risen very recently because of it's membership in the European Economic Area. It is entirely possible that united states has issues caused by continued high levels of immigration that Scandinavia has not had time to experience. Since our foreign born populations are similar, adjusting for that shows that when native born Scandinavians and Americans are considered, Scandinavia is much more ethnically/racially homogenous than the United States. Furthermore Scandinavia doesn't have a recent history of institutionalized oppression of a very sizable racial minority. There is still a generation of people alive here who actually lived under forced segregation, and more generations who were raised by them. I'm sure if America was composed only of people who's ancestors came here voluntarily, and who weren't kept as second class citizens for decades, we wouldn't have many of the problems we do.