3 ms·

Have they seen European salaries?

potatoicecoffee 2y ago
the american counteroffer sounds like zero and declining quality of living tho
DaiPlusPlus 2y ago
The salary for work in the US is $0.00 if NIH grants don’t get approved. Even if grants were resumed tomorrow, the fact they ever paused, at all, for capricious political reasons, means there isn’t good job security, even if the salary is good.
miunau 2y ago
Fundamental research, famously the place for the big bux!
- 3eb7988a1663 2y ago
  I was going to say, it is a common story for many academics to be living at basically poverty wages. Living in Europe where the baseline level of support is significantly higher sounds like a terrific deal.
arp242 2y ago
Not everyone is purely money-motivated. And while salaries for some things may be lower, the cost of some things is also lower (health care being a major one). I don't know what the salaries are in Bio, but with regards to developer salaries you can live a very comfortable life on a "low" European developer salary (excluding perhaps a few countries with deeper structural problems such as Portugal).
junon 2y ago
They're not bad considering cost of living and QoL.
jltsiren 2y ago
Salaries are a bigger problem for European industry. Relatively speaking, the academia is more competitive in Europe than in the US, because the gap between industry salaries and academic salaries is lower. European academia is usually constrained by the lack of funding and permanent positions. Many European researchers end up in the US, because it's easier to find a job there. Partly because it's a big country and the right kind of opportunities are more likely available at the right time. Partly because American researchers are more likely to end up in the industry, because the salary gap is higher. And partly because the American immigration system makes it easier for foreigners to get an academic job than an industry job. But we also like to joke that we are in the US, because we are not good enough to get a job at home.
rich_sasha 2y ago
A friend was doing her post doc in Switzerland (still Europe but of course an outlier). She got some job offers in top pharma companies in the UK. Her notional salary was lower than her post doc one, and tax would have been higher. She passed.
throw0101d 2y ago
> Have they seen European salaries? Have you seen European life expectancy? * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expe... Have you seen European maternal mortality rates? * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_maternal_mortality_ratio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_maternal_... Have you seen European vacation days? * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_b... Have you seen European happiness ranking? * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report

the american counteroffer sounds like zero and declining quality of living tho

The salary for work in the US is $0.00 if NIH grants don’t get approved. Even if grants were resumed tomorrow, the fact they ever paused, at all, for capricious political reasons, means there isn’t good job security, even if the salary is good.

miunau 2y ago

Fundamental research, famously the place for the big bux!

3eb7988a1663 2y ago
I was going to say, it is a common story for many academics to be living at basically poverty wages. Living in Europe where the baseline level of support is significantly higher sounds like a terrific deal.

arp242 2y ago

Not everyone is purely money-motivated. And while salaries for some things may be lower, the cost of some things is also lower (health care being a major one). I don't know what the salaries are in Bio, but with regards to developer salaries you can live a very comfortable life on a "low" European developer salary (excluding perhaps a few countries with deeper structural problems such as Portugal).

junon 2y ago

They're not bad considering cost of living and QoL.

jltsiren 2y ago

Salaries are a bigger problem for European industry. Relatively speaking, the academia is more competitive in Europe than in the US, because the gap between industry salaries and academic salaries is lower. European academia is usually constrained by the lack of funding and permanent positions. Many European researchers end up in the US, because it's easier to find a job there. Partly because it's a big country and the right kind of opportunities are more likely available at the right time. Partly because American researchers are more likely to end up in the industry, because the salary gap is higher. And partly because the American immigration system makes it easier for foreigners to get an academic job than an industry job. But we also like to joke that we are in the US, because we are not good enough to get a job at home.

rich_sasha 2y ago

A friend was doing her post doc in Switzerland (still Europe but of course an outlier). She got some job offers in top pharma companies in the UK. Her notional salary was lower than her post doc one, and tax would have been higher. She passed.

throw0101d 2y ago

> Have they seen European salaries? Have you seen European life expectancy? * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expe... Have you seen European maternal mortality rates? * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_maternal_mortality_ratio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_maternal_... Have you seen European vacation days? * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_b... Have you seen European happiness ranking? * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report